E20 From Corporate To Start-Up: Failure & Success ft. Manoj Adwani
September 2024
74 minutes
E20 From Corporate To Start-Up: Failure & Success ft. Manoj Adwani
September 2024
74 minutes
Stream on:
Start-ups are fundamentally and entirely a different operating context than corporates. Founders that try to replicate ways of working from large corporate settings fail in entrepreneurship. In this episode, we speaking with entrepreneur Manoj Adwani, founder of , about his experience leaving a large corporate environment, his failures and his successes in starting his own businesses. Through his storytelling, we learn firsthand how to best succeed in any new endeavor.
Key topics include:
0:00-01:43 Introduction To Manoj Adwani 01:43-07:01 The Shift From Corporate To Startup 07:01-14:43 The Importance of Sales and Storytelling 14:43-19:14 Lessons From A Failed Startup 19:14-25:31 Building Social Capital 25:31-36:19 Challenges of B2B Sales 36:19-40:20 Become A Problem Solver 40:20-45:35 Knowing When To Quit 45:35-01:04:16 Taking Customer Feedback Seriously 01:04:16-01:13:30 Confident and Humble Leadership
is a global, leadership-strategy consulting company. 3Peak creates the roadmap that aligns behaviours, relationships and Functional Human-Systems™ to achieve your business strategy.
Co-Founder holds a Ph.D. in Neuroscience, and did extensive research in Consciousness, Trauma and Physical, Emotional & Mental Health in various Institutes and Research Centers around Europe.
Co-Founder is one of the most sought after therapists in the world, mastering diverse modalities and opening wellness centers in Istanbul, Santiago, New York and Berlin. Her approaches bridges transpersonal psychology, meditation, bioenergetics, family- and business-constellations and more.
Co-Founder has extensive experience advising Fortune 50 and FTSE 100 C-Suite Executives in leadership, strategy, team dynamics, and organizational change. Before coaching, Mino worked in finance, management consulting, and mergers and acquisitions (M&A).
Mino Vlachos: Hello and welcome to the 3peak master leadership experience. My name is Mino Vlachos and I am the co founder of 3peak coaching and solutions where master leaders build healthy systems. Our company provides coaching and workshops to executive leaders. Today I'm joined by a very special guest, Manoj Adwani. Manoj is founder at Narad IO, a SaaS based intranet for SMBs. He has over 17 years of experience with technology, working both in India and Singapore, ranging from startups all the way to big corporates like Barclays. Within corporate, he went from being fresher to having country management roles. And still he left the job to explore the startup world. He got in the startup world in March of 2021 and his first startup failed. But he believes it was a great learning experience. So we're very lucky that he's here to share some of that wisdom with us. Hard earned. It's not theory. It's something that Manoj has actually been through in his life and also as an individual, he really loves to be part of a community and support other founders. So we're very lucky to have him here today. Thank you Manoj, for joining us.
Manoj Adwani: Thank you so much to you and the whole team of three people who thought that I should be here and just looking forward to have a good time with the folks.
Mino Vlachos: Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, I'm going to get right into it because I think in some ways we have a different experience, but some similarities. So you came from a big kind of corporate background. You worked at Barclays. I also came from a corporate background. So I was working at Ernst and Young Accenture. And now we're both doing this startup thing. Right, and it's quite a departure from the corporate world. And I know that every venture starts with a seed of potential. There is a vision or an idea that starts to kind of bubble up. So tell us a little bit what started to occur when you were in that corporate scene that might make you want to start a startup business?
Manoj Adwani: Yeah, sure. Meeno. So I think when we talk about the corporate, or be it any job, I think as a fresher when we start, and I will try to speak on a behalf of any indian individual and indian youngster who come from this tier, two cities who have not seen enough. So what happens is we get into these jobs, we get into this corporate because, you know, they're too shiny and we really want a piece of that. We really want to be part of that shine and that's how we enter. But the problem is, because the kind of background we come from we, we enter this to corporate and after a while we hit a glass ceiling. We start feeling like we're not reaching anywhere. But I'll be very honest, I think I also don't want to, you know, misguide youngsters, those who are listening. It's not that there is no potential in job, there's no potential in corporate. In fact, when I look back, I think there was too much of a potential in corporate. There was too much of potential. But is that we did not knew the right way. For example, even if you talk about the companies like Barclays or an wipe, in your case, there are people, those who become the country head or country CEO's. And if you ask me, are they doing well? Yes, absolutely they are doing well. But do you or me know the way how to become the CEO of Eny or CEO? Answer is no. And that's the reason we hit the glass ceiling. And eventually that was the thought process with me that, okay, now I'm at a certain position at workplace. I have spent like 1415 years of my life. Started with a fresher, went to different roles, cities, different countries. But now what next? You know, there was nothing enough challenges for me there. And the problem was because I also didn't knew how to find next challenge. Might be I could have just gone to my CEO, CTO or director and told them, okay, now I want to become the CEO in next five years or next ten years. What is the path? But I don't know, like, I didn't, I didn't even try. I was like, the only way to become better is now to leave the corporate and start your own startup. And I think what happened is like all the legacy that I built in like 1415 years, it was gone. Like on 28 February 2021, I was like, you know, technology risk manager at Barclays. And on 1 March, I lost my identity. It's like whatever I have done is gone. And that's the reason I say is so, so, so difficult, not just mentally, but also emotionally. You know, people like us. You would have put so many years to become that AVP, become that VP, and then you're like, okay, my title is gone now I don't have that luxury. So though in actual I left my corporate job with a mindset that there is not much room for me to grow. But that was my childishness, that was my wrong understanding. There are people, those who grow, those who become the country hats, those who become the CEO's. But I think I did not hit the right direction. And also I don't know who should I reached out. But now in last three years now I exactly know that if you are in a job, what you should do. But the problem is now I don't have a job. Now I have a startup where I'm struggling on both the sides. I need to make my own identity because I'm no more a VP of Barclays. Now I know what I have put in the door. It's just Manoj Advani, but I still use my tag x Barclays to get foot into the door. So I think this journey is much more difficult. Having said, I'm not taking away the joy. I'm not, because I think since I have been into this journey for more than three years now, it's absolutely fantastic. Now I have become, I'll be very honest, I think I've become hundred times better than what I was three years back. I might not be making similar money, which I will eventually make in couple of years, but I think in terms of knowledge, in terms of understanding, in terms of connection, I don't have words. And I think the best example is I don't think I would have been ever on a podcast with someone sitting far away from me in us if I would have in my job. I think that that sums it, but that sums it up a lot better. And I'm sure you must be having same feelings because you have seen the same transition.
Mino Vlachos: Absolutely. Like, when I was in a more corporate setting, like, you know, I was good at my job, like, I was a good performer. But now that I've gone through the kind of experience of having a startup who I've had to become in the process, and all the skills I've had to learn and push myself out of my comfort zone, and yeah, I would have not been on a, I would have not been hosting a podcast, I would not have been on a podcast. We would not have definitely not have met. But these are things that start to become more natural, I think, to a founder, because I found through very difficult experience that you need to be out in the world as a founder, you need to be in the marketplace. Whereas when I was in a corporate setting, I was comfortable just sitting back and saying, these four walls are my world. So if I can just almost make this my whole existence and operate within the rules of this environment, then that's all that matters. And now there's been months where, especially before I learned a lot of this is I would sit there and my calendar would just be blank for the whole month. I would have zero appointments and I sit there staring at it, wondering why is no one calling me and realizing that no one will ever call you. You have to go out into the world and meet people and make connections and get your name out there. And as kind of stupid as that sounds, I had to learn that there's a lot of things with three peak we had to learn very basic stuff around on how to run a business.
Manoj Adwani: Yeah, no, I think, you know, that is so right point that you made now. And I think I tell to a lot of people, a lot of those people, those who might be doing very well in the corporates, the reason they fail in startup is because no matter you're on which rank in the corporate, you could be a fresher, you could be a vp, you could be director, but there is at least someone telling you what you have to achieve in a month or in a quarter or in a year. Contrary, when you're in a startup, no one is telling you what to do. And that's the reason most of this corporate guys, no matter how good they are in the job, when the corporate, including me, they fail at the startup because no one is telling you, your calendar looks blank like you just said, and eventually your account looks blank. And that's when you get that awakening call. Oh my God, I, something is downhill, things won't work this way. You have to pick up the phone, make that sales call so that that dollar can hit your account. I'll be very honest for first, almost I think 18 months after I left my job, I did not made a single penny. I did not made a single penny for 1st 18 months. And specifically when you look for, you know, making the six digit income and corporate and then not making a single penny, most of the time I was not able to face myself. When I, you know, I look at myself in the mirror and like, have I done the right thing? Because you know, I have a family to survive. But then it was like, okay, now whatever I have done is done, I cannot go back and change it. The only thing I can do right now, take hold of the opportunity, accept it and run from here. So I know, I know. So when you say that calendar looks blank, I know it looks blank and it's very bad.
Mino Vlachos: Yeah, now it's like I went from being like, oh, that might be okay to now if I don't have like sales calls every day. I almost get mad at myself where I'm like what am I doing with I need to be. So the startup life for me boiled things down. I had to get it very simple. And I used to think of businesses, all these different functions, and it is, but in the beginning, it's so basic. It's like, can we make something and exchange it for money? And that's like the entire enterprise. The entire journey in the beginning is, can I make something and exchange it for money? Everything else I learned was a bit either superfluous or it's not a high priority. So, yeah, we could have the best, like, internal it in the world. We could have the best, you know, this or the best that. But is it literally engaging in the act of exchanging a service or product for money? If it's not in the very beginning, it's not the biggest priority. And like you said, we don't have a boss to tell us, hey, you should be doing this, this or this. So setting those early priorities, like, I've now written it on the wall next to my desk, like, the number one priority for me is, like, get invoices paid, get money into the business. Number two, like, do a sales call. Number three, like, I had to really write it down so I could see, like, what. And if I'm doing number five, but I should be doing number one or number two, I remind myself, like, today, you either have an invoice, you need to collect, or you need to make a sales call. These are the most important things, exchanging money and actually selling. And that's been a big revolution in the way I've thought. It's just not how I was trained in a corporate setting where it was much more about either, you know, okay, I'm gonna do the service, I'm gonna do my job, I'm gonna check in with my boss, you know, okay, have a little lunch. Like, it's a very different, it's beautiful in its own right, but it's a different mentality.
Manoj Adwani: Yeah, I think the point you made about sales, so in my all 14 years of my job, you know, I never been into the role of a sales or marketing. Never. All my 14 years were very, very executional job. You had to do this, do that, you send it an email or you do, you know, complete certain tasks, but it was never sales and marketing. And I never knew that. I am good at marketing or I can ever do sales, but I would, I would, I think I will put this very straight. For anyone who thinks he wants to do his startup or he wants to do any kind of business in his life, you have to learn sales. Sales is not about all the theoretical knowledge, you know, funnels and everything. It's about human to human connection. Can you pick up the phone, speak to someone and can you explain them what you do so that they can pay the money? If you can do this, I think the rest, everything will follow. If you cannot do this, if you are, you know, too reluctant, too stuck in your mind thinking what other person would feel, what if he is busy? What if he doesn't like? No one cares. And I think there's a very good saying that I learned you are only serious for yourself. You're only important for yourself. No one else's greeting is so important. So put down that ego that you are so important for someone that he would think about you. Just pick up the phone, call him, tell him what you do. First person, second person, third person. And another golden thing is, you will hundred percent screw up first few calls. That's okay, there's nothing wrong. It's like when we went for the first interview, did we screw up? We screwed up, but did we stop going to the interviews? No, it's similar. That was a job interview where we are applying for the job. This is similar. You are applying where you can sell your product or where you can sell your service. It is very, very clear, if you want to become a startup founder or, you know, any businessman, you should know how to sell, learn, start selling. Right now, I think, I don't know how I can emphasize it more, but if you cannot sell, it will be very difficult to survive in the ecosystem.
Mino Vlachos: Yeah, it's such an interesting disconnect because I've been through it myself, and I think you're speaking from your experience that I went from thinking sales was somehow bad or dirty to I'm like, now every day there's only one thing that matters to me, and it's sales. And it's because I believe in our service. I believe so wholeheartedly that what we're doing with three peak is really valuable for people. And every day I just kick myself because I don't know how to explain it well, and that's our journey. I'm still figuring it out. How do I explain this thing that's, I think, really beautiful. Well, but I've gone on such a transformation, inner transformation, where I just like sales has become for me one of the best self development tools. And being a startup founder, one of the best self development tools. I almost think of sales as like a spiritual practice these days. Whereas I used to think it was this like moral evil, now I'm like, it's like it could be the path to spiritual enlightenment for me, not I'm not saying generally. I'm just saying for me, it stretched my, it stretched my capacity, but kind of defeated my ego constantly and getting out of my own way. And I overthink a lot. I overthink so much, I second guess myself. And like you said, now every day what I work on is just not thinking at all. And actually, in a weird way, all the meditation training I did help me with sales because I just try not to. I might be a blank slate not to think. And that's one of the many ways sales is actually supporting me in my journey to not be attached to, like, my self importance. Because actually I need to just call someone and see, hey, do you need some support? Because we have something that could potentially help.
Manoj Adwani: Yeah, yeah, no, I think so. One thing that you said that I think sales is very much similar to, and I think again, one more point that the new folks need to understand. It's about the storytelling. If you can't tell the story, you can sell the story. And I'm a firm believer of it. Like, if I'm on my calls, I never sell my service. I always tell the story that what we did to a certain customer and how he has, you know, zoomed up or whatsoever once. And I think the best way is if your customer can sell your story on your behalf, that's the best way. I don't know how you can do it, but you had, I think for you, like, what you are doing, like during this podcast, I'd be, if you can, you know, get your customer on the podcast and directly, indirectly they can speak about your product or service. I also have my own podcast, but that's in Hindi most of the time. I think that's how people got to know about me is that, you know, he worked with so and so brand and that brand scaled up and someone like, how do you know? He himself said that. He said that on the. He said that on the, on the podcast or he said that on his website or he said on LinkedIn, my job is done setting. Sell the story. Tell the story and sell the product. I think if you have to. Very, very good at the storytelling. And I think storytelling is a skill that will become better with the time. It won't become better on day one. On day one, you will suck for sure. I think you should practice it a lot. And if you have kids at home, start with them. If you don't, kids at home, try to catch the kids around. If you can entertain a kid, that means you are doing decent. If the kids are just running away because, you know, they are very innocent. They have nothing to buy, nothing to sell. So if they are really convincing with your stories, which means you are doing decent job, but, you know, if they are not finding it, because when you, when you tell the story to the kids, you really break it down. You really break it down. You cannot use the jargons with them. You cannot use the heavy words with them. But if they understand the emotion, what you are trying to convey, if they can understand what you are trying to explain them through the story, that means you are doing a decent job. But if the kids are running away, which means you still lot to learn. So I always practice it. Like, I have a daughter who is like seven years old, so I try to tell her the story during the bad time. And if she tells me I don't understand, I'm like, oh, my God, I'm not doing the right job today. I have to break it down more. I make it more simpler because I think as a human, we like simple stuff. You know, we don't want, there's only so many complications in life. Now you come and explain me one more complicated thing, then I'll give you the AI, I'll put you in the bottom technology, I'll give you server and whatnot. I'm like, oh, my God, I don't need it. So, yeah, you tell the story, sell the service.
Mino Vlachos: Yeah. So I admire many things about you, Manoj, and one of the things is that you're very open about your first venture not working out. And for a lot of founders, that can be a very painful experience. But I very much admire how much you open in telling people your lessons learned. So can you tell us a little bit about that venture? And then now that it's, you know, been, you obviously started a new company. This one is very successful. What did you learn from that first venture that helped you in starting your new venture?
Manoj Adwani: Yeah, so, sure. You know, so the first product or the post SaaS product that we were trying to build, if I just explained kind of a simple line, it was a b, two b business to business marketplace. So let's say you are a big manufacturer and you want small retailers to buy from you, or you are a small retailer. You're looking from some big distributor or some big manufacturer. You can buy from them and eventually sell it. So we were building a marketplace where these two parties can come together and do the business, and eventually you make commission out of it. So that was the, that was the simple business idea. Why we chose it is like it was in some, I won't get into which it was like, we just found out this gap and as an individual, I didn't have control. So I, like, I just found out this gap and like, everyone was talking about the startup, this was somewhere in here, 2019. Like, everyone was talking about the startup and I was like, okay, let's do it. So I didn't give it a thought. I didn't give it a thought. I didn't knew that. What does it take to build a startup? I didn't talk to anyone. You know, I was in the. So for exactly. This is a, this is a very good thing that people should understand, especially for the indian kids, I'll tell you, I don't know about how does it work in us or Europe. So in India, I come from a very small town, so where my mindset used to work back then, 2019, 2021 that I come from a small town, but I have made it so big, you know, I reached Barclay Singapore. I'm in the country management. I'm the best guy. I don't need to ask anyone. I already know much more than those guys. I don't know what they're doing in some small city in Mumbai, Bangalore or Surata. I know much more than, I don't need to ask anyone if I can do this from the small town, if I can reach Barclay Singapore, I think I can do this. It's just a matter of time. I'll do it. That was my first mistake. You might be good in your job. You might have done enough doing the same jobs, already got promoted. You went to cities, you went to countries, but that doesn't mean that you're good at everything. So lesson number one, I did not talk to anyone. I directly jumped into it. That was one thing. Second thing, everyone talks about the product market fit, PMF, but no one talks about PFF. Product founder fit. The good way of thinking it, are you the right founder to build this product? If the answer is no, you should not do it. For example, if you talk about the LinkedIn Red Hoffman, he was the right guy to bring the LinkedIn. And this is somewhere, this is something I learned. I read it somewhere. When the Red Hoffman and his co founder were building the LinkedIn, they were asking like, who will be the first customers? They looked at each other and they were like, okay, we have at least thousand good numbers, thousand good phone numbers in our mobile who are on the big ranks in the corporates coming from Harvard and Stanford, I think we can at least get this thousand number, thousand people on the LinkedIn. So they had their first customer ready with them and that made them product, founder fit. They belonged to that market. They knew the people, they knew the problem and that's why they could, they were right people to solve it. In my case, in my first venture, I just picked up the idea from nowhere. It was not my problem, it was some random problem. I don't even remember how did it struck me. And I just started building on it. And the biggest reason I failed because when I was talking to these businesses through coming on board, I had no clue and they had no clue that who's this guy? Because I did not knew anything about the way small businesses work and specifically this small business. When talking about this, textiles, diamonds, plastics, steel manufacturers, I didn't know how they function, they didn't knew me. They were like, who are you? And that was the second reason. First because I did not do enough research talking to people about the startup or about the industry. And second, I was not the right founder to build the product. I should might be. So I always say how, how do you decide? Are you the right founder or not? First thing is, do you have the education in that field? Have you, have you done some degree? Second is, are you working in the same vertical like are you, if you, if you're looking for a fintech product, are you really working in a fintech, do you really understand how complicated fintech world is? And third is it could be your family business. That might be because working with your fathers or brothers or cousins, you know, enough about that particular if you are into this, into one of these three categories, then you should absolutely go and build it. If you're not into these three categories, still, if you want to get into category, I strongly recommend go and work for someone who is working in that category and then at least you will learn. And if you don't want to do it, don't build it. And it has been so expensive mistake. I spent like what? Hundred thousand dollars to learn this. And I'm still telling that I still know people, I still know youngsters who are doing the same mistake and they will only get to learn this hard way. But this is my biggest thing, that you should not directly jump into it. And you ask yourself, are you the best person to build it? If you think you're not the best person to build it, do not build it, because then you'll be stuck somewhere and no one is coming to help you, that's for sure.
Mino Vlachos: Definitely. It echoes a lot of the mistakes that I've made in mine as well. So I'm sitting there and I'm like, oh, boy, I hope that. But like, if I could just share my personal story. I came from the coaching kind of corporate coaching industry, so I have more of the education and skill set of what we're doing. But something I supremely underestimated is I do not have a network of executives that I can pitch to. And so, like you said, the kind of the founder fit. Right? Like, this is something that I question all the time. And I'm like, how did we possibly start this company not think about this, about who are we actually selling to? And do we know those people? And so now it's an interesting game where you're trying to actually meet people and make those connections while bringing in enough money to keep the business, you know, going and trying to network, network, network, right. And, like, build real relationships, because I don't think you can, and especially for our business. Or maybe it's b two b. It's real relationships. Like, we're not there to exploit people or to take advantage of them. We're not lying. And so we need to be able to have a real rapport so that then they trust us and want to work with us. It's difficult to go and, yeah, like you said, drain the savings account, do the expensive mistake just to learn. Like, man, back to my original thing. Like, you need to have your calendar full. You need to be meeting people, going to events, things that it took us way too long to realize actually the world is operating out there. No one cares about us. Like, we're not that important. We're not that good at what we do. We have to be where they are, and then we need to figure out what are they going through and then really we can support. So, okay, yeah, we have the education and the academic tools, and even I've done it with real clients. It's still not enough. It's still not enough. You have to really, really know who you want to serve and be with them. Go be with them.
Manoj Adwani: Yeah. Actually there's another term, I don't know, like if that term is used or like, how heavily is being used in us and Europe. But I learned this terminal, I think only around two, two and a half years back. I did not know about this term. It's called social capital. If you don't have social capital, people don't want to pick your own. What I have done in last probably two and a half years or three years, I try to build a lot of social capital, a lot of social capital. And to do, to build the social capital, you have to be on the ground. Because now you look at this way, you started business today, or one year or two years, you are competing with someone in your space. If he is of your same age as what we are, that means you are competing with someone who is doing the same thing for last 15 years, how come you are going to compete with it? Only way. If your social capital is better, it's like you have to become a better brand then. So today if I do buy a shoes, there could be two brands. I would just go to one that I trust. That's the social capital, just the brand. I didn't know this word exists when I was in job. Because at my job, my title was good enough for me. You know, so and so at Barclays, you go to banks, your accounts are open, you go to Amex, you get your credit card and you go to events, you get welcomed. It's not because you are Manoj Advani, it's because you are facilit. But I didn't knew this so and so term. But now when I learn there's a term called social capital. So if I don't, if I talk about the surat that the city I belong to, I can tell you in last three years I have gone to every event. I not missed one event in my city. Not a single event. No matter good, bad, who's calling? What kind of event? Ehr, tag process, sales, marketing, whatever is it? I will go. The reason is because I want to be there. I want to. I want people to know about me. That there's this guy who's come back from Singapore. He's trying to build something so that next time when I give them a call, I don't have to explain myself. Who am I? I just have to tell my name that I am calling so and so. And they exactly know. Aye aye ah. We know about you. We heard about you. Okay, tell me, how can I help? And I think the social capital people take it so lightly. So lightly. I don't know why. I don't know why. I think so. There's again a saying that there are a lot of things you can get it done with money. That is real capital. And there are thousands of things you cannot get it done with money. You can only get it done with. You cannot end with capital, but you can only get it done with social capital. And people underestimate social capital a lot. Lot. So I think that one more lesson the founder has to understand or anyone who wants to come to the entrepreneur world that you need to earn that social capital. And I think there's a good way. Again, I've seen this in Asia, I do not know about us, might be you can tell me. So I believe you must be having a life insurance. You don't have one?
Mino Vlachos: No, I'm playing with my life here.
Manoj Adwani: So, okay, let me ask this. So let's say you had to buy a life insurance. How would you buy, would you buy it online?
Mino Vlachos: Yeah, I would probably start online. I would start doing research just to see what's out there.
Manoj Adwani: Okay. And let's say if your neighbor itself is an agent who sells life insurance, do you think you will trust him?
Mino Vlachos: Yeah, if I already have, already know them. And yeah, there's a good chance if I knew someone that was selling it, I would start there. I would usually start with, I just happen to not know anyone. So I'd go to the Internet. But if assuming I knew someone, it's like for instance, I know my father has life insurance, so maybe I'd ask him like, oh, what did you do? You know, what did you find?
Manoj Adwani: Yeah. So the point I'm trying to make, you know, whenever you make any buying decisions, and specifically in the zone where you're very new, for example, the life insurance is not your day to day thing, or buying a property or leasing a property or, you know, buying any such thing, when it's not your zone, you try to look around for the people, those who are already doing it. So the point I'm trying to make, like, you do not buy insurance from the best company, you buy insurance from the best person. You know, that insurance company could be shitty, you don't care. But because you trust this person who's selling the insurance, and that's how is in the service of product business. People do not buy the best product. People buy the best known product. If you're not out there, if you're not talking about yourself, it's very, very tricky. Like even for this call, I'm sitting with my brand Nara that I have because I really wonder if someone is watching this podcast, they should know that where do I come from? What do I do? So huge, huge point for all these youngsters, everyone who's trying to go out, network, network and network meaningful, go tell him what you do. And the best way is ask them how you can help them. Trust me, if you help someone today, that person is going to come back next time and he will always have this in your mind that, okay, I needed him, he helped me. Now it's my turn to help, so never shy away. If you think that someone is looking for the help, go out of your way sometime to help someone, because if it will come back, it will be hundred x, and I'm pretty sure it will be 100 x.
Mino Vlachos: Yeah, I think you've already touched on a lot of kind of key principles around. For instance, storytelling is an important skill to develop, I think, in the sales process. You talk about kind of going to events, getting known, supporting people, helping them out. Are there other ways that you have found to kind of increase that social capital? Because we're also doing business to business sales, which means we're typically not just trying to convince one person that we can support them, but we need to convince one person to go convince their team or their leader or their manager. So we need to almost equip the person in front of us to trust us so much that they want to go sell on our behalf into the company, which is different. And I'm not comparing them because I don't have. Yeah, this experience has humbled me so much that I'll say, business to business sales is very different than b two c, business to consumer. I've never done b two C, so I can't say which one's harder or easier. They're just different. And this experience has humbled me so much that I know that if I've never experienced doing something, I do not give advice anymore. I do not pretend to understand if something is easier or harder, because I'm like, I don't know, these things are quite different. So we're talking a bit about b two b here. What are some of the things that have supported to build your social capital and supported your business?
Manoj Adwani: Yeah. So I think when you talk about the b two b and when you talk about the social capital, we know, I think the one thing that have helped me a lot, that in last two years when I had nothing to offer, you know, like, because my first startup did not work, I was still trying to get onto the second one. I was still looking for something, what I would do. But even in that period, even that one period when I was, you know, to the ground most vulnerable, but still, I did not stop going to the events. And before even anyone else would ask me, I would go, you know, on the stage or take that mic or go to the podium, and I tell myself that I was doing so and so startup, it didn't work out, and now I'm on the way of working out of, you know, so before anyone else can point you out. I used to point out myself directly so that no one can tell me, okay, what you're doing these days. So, first point that I always made, like, just because my product hasn't worked, I should not stop myself from going out. I still kept going out, meeting people, talking people. What worked in my favor, I think, you know, is because the kind of experience I bring from my previous jobs and everything, it was comparatively easy for me to gain that trust from. From the. From the audience in my city or in my. In my state or in my country. Because if I tell myself, you know, I come from Barclays, Singapore, so people were like, nah, he's a decent guy. We should talk to him. Because of that, I could. I could. I was, you know, I became very, very fastly connected to a lot of people and what I was doing, for example, if someone would reach me out, that, can you help me on this 100%? I could not do it directly, but I directly connected it to the right people. That way, I really generated a lot of sales for other people without asking for any commission. I was like, okay, someone would come to me, do you know who can do this? I know. Okay, I'll connect you. That person would get sales, and this person will get good faith that I just went to Monoji and helped me. So I think that helped me to earn a lot of social capital. People were like, okay, if you reach out to Monoji, he's a problem solver, and I think you have to become a problem solver. People should remember you when they're in a problem. Once you become that guy, you know, a go to guy, it's like, they should not feel okay. If I call Monoji, try to sell me something if you're doing that. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. You are a red flag. People are not going to call you. People are not going to get in touch with you. It's like, people should be like, let, let. Let us only call him when there's a real need. Because, you know, he's a very genuine person. He helps a lot of people, so let's not waste his time. Let him. Let us call him because he's the right guy and he will connect. So you should become a go to guy. You have to become a problem solver in your area. I know. Like, I. The countries like us, Europe is so big. You cannot become famous for everyone on the planet, but at least the zone you are in, the area you are in, the industry you are in, you have to become a go to guy. So for example, I'll put it very easily. So I got a lot of friends in Bangalore. So Bangalore is the Silicon Valley of India. Bangalore has got a lot of startups, a lot of startups. So the way I work is any startup in Bangalore, if they want to come to my state to do any event or to do any trade show, I am the first name that comes to their mind. It's like, okay, let's call Manoj. And he will make sure that we get the right stage, we get the right audience, we get the right people, and they're pretty sure that I won't even charge them for this. And I think this is the kind of trust that you build around that you should be a go to guy, you should be a problem solver. Sometimes you might feel that, okay, am I making right money out of it or not? You might not make direct revenue out of it, you might not make a direct money out of it. But, you know, these connections will make you so strong in the ecosystem that eventually you will make money. So I think you have to build. It's a long way. You cannot do it in like a month or so. You have to. You keep doing it, at least for probably at least one year from minimum. Minimum. If you keep doing this for one year, meeting right people, talking right things, solving right problems, solving real problems, people will trust you. And you know that. That's where you become that social capital, that's where you become your personal branding. And that's how the things work. It's you to be you to be very, very authentic. I can't help you, but I know someone can help you. Let me connect. So I think that's a very basic. I have also learned it hard way, and I think I'm still learning it because I think as a human, we get driven away and you start selling your own product or your own service. But I think everyone has their own learning curve, and I'm also learning it slowly now.
Mino Vlachos: And so what was it like when the, when you kind of chose to end your venture? I can, for me, only imagine if I had to do that at this point, it would be very painful for me. It's something that I invested a lot of everything, of my soul, my time, my money, my energy. What was the process like to wind that down? Did you know there was a certain moment you knew? And was there an emotional component to that?
Manoj Adwani: Yeah, I think it was an emotional for sure, because something you started and you worked on it for like day and night for three years, and then one day you feel, no, no, it's not going the way it should. Because eventually you can be emotional, you can be philosophical, but I think then you have a mouth to feed. You have a family to look after. And there is a term in the stock market, stop loss. You should know. You should know your limit, that you cannot make more losses than this. So I think I had that number in my mind always, that I'm not going beyond that. And once I had that number, me and my co founder back then, we spoke about it, and I was like, okay, so the way it started, like, first, the step one was we moved from office to a co working space. Step one. Step two, we let go all the employees. It was just me and my co founder building in and out. And step three was like, even between two of us, we were making sales. But when we looked at that, even if we reach our 100% potential, you know, by doing this, it's not going to be enough to become a really big company or to become a really, really profitable company. And so that's where we, you know, we sat down, we spoke to each other. It's like we only have limited time in our life to do certain things. You know, everyone has got, like, 365 days, 24 hours. So, like, we have a limited time in our life to do certain things. Now we have to decide, are we going to spend that time doing this or we should stop doing this and rather focus on something that could be more meaningful, more profitable, not just for us, for our clients, for our employees, for our family. And that's where it was a very, very emotional turmoil. I still remember, like, that co working space. I went to the head of the co working space and told them, okay, we are not going to come here from tomorrow. We just want to pack our bags. We want to pack our laptop. We put everything in our box, and we just walked to our, we walked to the parking, and between me and microphone, we were like, it's done. We couldn't believe it. I still felt. I still remember, I felt like, you know, something will happen, you, some magic will happen, like it happen in movies. You know, some marvel style will come down or I really expecting, you know, I'll just get some phone call, I'll get some email. But no, I think magic doesn't work until you work. So, yeah, so I think no magic happened on the last day. And it was very, very emotional, even when I look back, that we had to do it. But today, if I think that, did we do the right thing? I think, yes, it was the right thing. Because dragging along something which is not working is kind of a waste of time, money, effort, because, like I said, everyone has got a limited time in their life, and now we have to choose what we really want to with, do with the time. You should not waste it doing the things that really don't matter. So, yes, it was emotional, but I think it was a practical decision also. And I always tell to all my founders that no matter. So you can. You can fool around the whole world. Whole world. But you cannot fool with yourself. So when you look into yourself in the mirror in the morning and if you know it's not going to work, stop it. And there's one of my friend, or you can call it a colleague, or I can call it mentor, he told this very strong line to me that Manoj, anything which is not hundred percent yes is not yes. So as a founder, you have to understand there's no, there's no harm in experimenting. You should. But during the experiment, you should know when to stop. You cannot burn everything you have or why do you are so big. You know, you already have, like, $1 billion in your account, and then you don't care. Okay. Even if the few thousands are gone, that's a different story. Like, if a lot of people, they start comparing themselves to the Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg, you know, okay, Elon Musk is building so and so. He built $1 million. Mark Zuckerberg is doing so and so. He's got billion dollars, boss. You understand? They are the outliers. You are not. And that's the reason you are here and they are there. So to become Akzakabak, to become Alan Musk, first you have to build at least one profitable business, make enough money, then you can start experimenting. Lot of things. You cannot start experimenting from zero, from scratch. Asking investor to give you the money to experiment, that doesn't work. It's just the wrong way. So you should know when to stop. No harm in experimenting. But they should. You should know your stop loss moment. And, yeah, it's going to be emotional for sure. Right. Even if you work, work on it for, like, a week or a month, doesn't matter. It's an emotional for sure.
Mino Vlachos: And so I imagine there's, for some, there could be a very natural progression of, like, it didn't work out. I'll go back into a corporate environment. I mean, you know, there was a lot of things about a big corporate environment that really frustrated me. But now, you know, there's, like, one day a month now where I'm like, man, how nice would that be? Like, you know, you kind of get taken care of. You have like, essentially like a daddy or a mommy that pays you and tells you what to do every day and you get to just do whatever, you know, they say and like life in some weird way. I romanticize it as like simple, you know, like, oh, wow, remember that? And yet you decided not to do that. You know, you have such an impressive cv. I know that you could go back into a corporate environment if you wanted, and instead you started another venture which is now very successful. What was that process like, why start something new instead of going back into a more like familiar or even comfortable environment like a corporate.
Manoj Adwani: Yeah. So, you know, being honest, I did try, I'll be very honest. It's not that I did not, but I think, I'm not sure the way I was trying it was right or wrong, I don't know that. But it didn't work out the way I really wanted to because for me it was like, okay, I have spent almost 14 years in corporate and it was just around the break of 18 months, you know, I left my job and started doing so. When I was going back to, when I was trying to go back to, I realized now the things in the world would not be same. The reason is because now I started to own things, you know, own success, own mistakes on right thing, on wrong things. So I knew that it's not going to be same now. And that is something I also experienced in the initial talks when I was trying to speak to anyone, you know, so the people I was trying to talk to, they were like, you know, they were, they were trying to be, what is the right word for it? Yeah. So, you know, they were like, most of like within a consoling mode. Ah, we know it doesn't work out. You know, let us, let us know how we can help. And I was like, ah, no, you know, I don't want the sympathy. Yeah, sympathy, you know, they were very, they're trying to be sympathetic to me on the call, on the meetings and I was like, no, no, no, no, I don't need this. I don't want someone to give me a job out of sympathy. I want someone to hire me because of my cv, because of my skills, because what I have done. And I think that was the moment it stopped me. I said no because anyone I would give a call and interview got arranged and the first question they would ask what happened? And I was like, okay, it didn't work out. And oh, my God. So sorry for you. I'm like, okay. And I think that was the moment I decided, no, no, I'm not going back, no matter how tough is going to be, but I'm not going back. But I knew that I still have, you know, I still did not have the second idea back then. So what will I do until then? So coming from the corporate, I knew a lot about the project management, a lot, because that's what corporates teaches you very well, how to, how to manage big projects. So I started my online course. I was teaching project management to a lot of founders or the founding teams, specifically those who in the tier two cities, because they had, they don't have that kind of right exposure. So I started selling the courses. That course is 100%. It helped me to make money, but it also gave me a lot of visibility in the market. And after that, I started my podcast. So step one was, yes, I tried to go back, but because of the sympathy thing, I couldn't. Step two, I still had to make money. So course, I felt like, okay, now I know enough people. If I give, I give someone a call, he will surely come on the podcast, then the podcast. And when this all three things came together, my social capital, my course selling, because course selling really taught me how to sell because I was really selling course on a higher price point because I had this tag of bar place. I was really selling at the high price point, and I was not negotiating it. I sit on any call and say, okay, I'm not negotiating. If you really want to learn from it, this is the price you have to pay. So, yes, I tried to go back to the corporate video. I won't, I won't lie, but I think the kind of feedbacks or the kind of response I got, it wasn't suiting me. And eventually, during my journey, of course and podcast, there was this gap that I could find out. So I was working with a company as a consultant, as a freelance consultant back then, and I realized that I was helping them to make a lot of policies, lot of sops, lot of knowledge base. And I asked them, where are you going to store all this? And they were like, okay, we'll put it on the Google Drive. And that where my mind stuck, I was like, don't you use intranet or sharepoint? And they were like, what is intranet? And I was like, oh, my God, what's happening? And that I started talking to a lot of people and I realized still smaller companies, tier two companies, SMBs, do not use intranet. They use some random drives now, like, no, no, no. This is a gap for sure. And I should work on it. And that's where we started working on Narut IO and the name NarAD. Because as for the hindu mythology, NarAD is lot of information and knowledge intranet, where you store your knowledge. So I was like, okay, what can be better name than Narad? Kataya. So that was the journey from one failure to the another product. We're still, you know, still grunting, still learning, still falling every day, still getting up every day. But, yeah, so that's the journey. What's happening here? And I think this, there's no, I know, I know a lot of people, when their ventures fail, they go back to the corporate. In fact, they do much more better. I'm telling you, hiding an ex co founder is the best thing any, any organization can do. Best thing. Because now that person has figured it out, a lot of things, he will put his soul and heart. And I think if any of any of the good corporates are listening to this podcast, I would request them. If you are having problems at a certain level, you are not able to solve it. Hire an ex founder. He will solve it for you. Because he. Exactly know, because founders become this problem solver. So, yes, I think ex founders become the best employees.
Mino Vlachos: Yeah, I'll just pick on that shortly. And then we're going to get into NArA IO. But I think what's interesting is we become problem solvers, but we have no real resources around us. So I don't have a big team, I don't have a lot of money, I don't have a lot of things. And if I put myself, I imagine myself back in those environments, I'm like, who I've had to become, plus all those resources and a big brand, and they have tons of like, like, I think of my old company, and there was 1000 documents and knowledge management stuff on sharepoint that was just collecting dust. Like no one ever touched it. And every time we did a project, we made a PDF or something, you just throw it on there and it just sits there forever. And I'm like, you literally have a treasure trove of amazing materials that I know. If you send even one thing for free to an executive is a huge value add because someone actually paid for you to make this. That's just sitting there now. So you have thousands of essentially paid for small digital products that you don't use. You could just give them away for free. The amount of business I feel like I could just generate now in a moment. If you gave me a brand behind me and all those resources and a team to delegate to, I'm like, I would be unstoppable, right? But I don't have that. So now when I'm like, oh, like, you know, I was talking to someone and I was like, oh, there's a gap in the market for our industry. We do leadership. So with AI and technology, there's going to be, for HR, there seems to be a gap in leadership capabilities, leadership competencies tied to a post AI working world. And I'm like, I could easily solve that for someone and that's not a difficult task for me. But I don't have a team of analysts to go create at this stage to go create a competency framework. I'm like, in some way I have to go do it on my own with some support here and there with others. But if I had a whole team, we could do it overnight, right? And then tomorrow we hit the market. So it's just a very different. So, yeah, I could see if you go back into a corporate environment after having done something where you have to self initiate, you have to self prioritize, you have to solve problems and you do it with nothing. Like when you have then the bounty of a big company behind you and the brand and existing customers that you can talk to and get referrals from. I really just feel, I don't know, maybe it's my ego again, but I feel like I would be compared to the employee I used to be. This version of me would be unstoppable compared to the old employee I was before doing a startup.
Manoj Adwani: Given with this knowledge three years back, four years back that you know you and I think now I know what the teacher management first I used to feel, what does the reality teach in MBA. But now I know what they teach in MBA. This is what they teach in MBA, at least in the good MBA schools. I'm not talking about some Tom, Dick and Harry schools, but if you go to really good Stanford, Harvard, Oxford, this is what they teach you to write, network, solve, right problem, you're good to go. The problem is when we were employees back then, we were only focusing on our own job. It's like most of the time we used to push away. This is not my job, I'm not doing. And bosses were looking for those kind of people who's doing more. He's the person who's willing to take more jobs. Let's promote him, let's put him across, let's make him travel, let's give him one more chance. And I think we didn't use that framework. We didn't use a framework. At least I didn't knew. I don't know about others, but I didn't knew that.
Mino Vlachos: Yeah, I'll have add my own two senses that now, because the way we've structured our company, I'm essentially running the business. And to your point, even though I coach CEO's, it's different to sit in the seat now. I think all the time my little mental model is like I am the filter between the inner and the outer world. So I think a lot about the outside. So how does the outside perceive three peak and also what's happening on the inside? So how do we make those two things the best they can be? And then when I have like an employee or someone come or part time and they're sharing their problems and it's legitimate, I really can have compassion for that. But they're really speaking from their own like little box of what they sit in and what's important to them, and that is their job. So I'm not saying they need to be like thinking like a CEO, but it's so different than the level at which I'm thinking about problems and thinking about how to move this organism forward. And I never had that lived experience because as an employee, even if I had direct reports, I still just thought about my little box all the time. I never was really asked to think. And okay, maybe it wasn't my responsibility, but when I would sit with the CEO of our company, the company within Accenture, I was at, I never stopped to actually think about, like, what is this person actually thinking about? Like, what is their purview of this company? Like, what's important to them? What are the problems that keep them up at night? It was really just about me and my problems and how he could help me and solve my problems. And so it's interesting to be in the other chair now where I'm like, again, I have so much compassion because I don't know that it's even right that an employee should be thinking like a CEO, but to see them in their kind of, in their role and the problems and the level of problems they have and then the level of problem solving I'm doing is totally different. And I can see almost how the dots connect between the two, right from what I'm doing up here to what they're doing down there. But it's just a very different experience. And it's really fun actually to see this and to learn and to grow. These are the more, for me, enjoyable parts of the job.
Manoj Adwani: Yeah. No, I think one point you said that when you look at your own employees and you don't see that, but I think, I think that that is the journey that they have to do. I don't think they can. They can think like you. They will not be, because they do not know what's going in your mind. Because for you, it's very important that everyone makes money next week, next month or next quarter. But for them it's like, am I making enough money? And, you know, that's the major mindset shift. That's a major mindset shift. And I don't think you can, you can ever think like a founder or a CEO unless you are there, unless you've done that. So I don't even expect. Sometime I do, I try, but also I expect, but sometimes I don't expect because like I said, there are a lot of calls where employees go and sit and I'm like, that was such an easy problem to solve. Why did you even took 2 hours? It's like I go to the call and it's like done. And then they're like, how come? You know, this was the solution I like, because my mind is only thinking about one thing. How can I get out of this situation? That's all. Because there's no going back for me. If I'm on a call with the client. I'm very clear, how can I solve this? That's all. And how can I make a win win situation for both of us, for me and for my client? But as an employee, if you are trying to earn the brownie point only for yourself, there's a huge chance that you stop thinking about the client. So I think I agree to you. I think that would never happen. That would never happen that employees will start behaving like you, at least not initially. I don't know if they're in the long term.
Mino Vlachos: And so Nara IO, I'd love to hear what do you think is enabling your success this go around? Because we've probably talked about all the pieces and all the building blocks up until now, but I know it's going well. And you're so introspective and has a clear kind of understanding of, I think yourself, your business, the mechanisms. So what's different here than the other stuff that you've done in the past?
Manoj Adwani: Yeah. So there are two major points that we are taking care of this time. First is the PFF product founder fit. So I think as a founder, I'm the. I'm the perfect person to build this. There are two reason. One, because I come from the corporate. I spent like almost 14 years there. So I exactly know how an intranet works, what an intranet create, what an Internet or a sharepoint can do in your company. So I exactly know that. And point number two, in the same and the same reason is because in the last three years, I have seen a lot of the SMBs, this struggle with this knowledge base. They do not know what to do with this knowledge. They have this lot of documents, lot of sops, but they really don't know what to do. So I think that's. That's the first point. I feel I'm the perfect founder of the PFF. If I talk about the product founder, I'm the right founder to build this. Second, which I did not do in my last product. This time, we are going with the customer feedback hand to hand. It's not like you build the whole product and throw it in the market and let people. I figure it out now. It's like every feature, I put it out, I put it on the LinkedIn, I put it on the emails. There are biweekly emails. There are daily updates, there are weekly updates going on social media, going on emails, going on messages, so that customer can give us a feedback. This is right, this is wrong, this is not required because of that. What's happening is we are not, you know, we are not putting all our efforts blindly. We exactly know that if you're building something, is the customer using it or not? This is something we didn't do in our last product. In the last product is like, you build it and they will come, you know, that was the mindset. But I don't think that's, that's work. In the startup, at least. It doesn't work now because there are thousands of products built, built every day and shipped every day. And specifically these young folks, you know, the 1820s, 25, they have got so much of energy. They got all this because of this cloud things and lot of credits lowers lot of investor money. People are building and shipping products like anything. So you cannot do this. You cannot build anything that you like and just throw it in the market. You have to understand what your customers want. You have to talk to them regularly, which we are trying to do now, which we didn't do earlier. I think these are the two major points that we are trying to different that. I have only chose the problem where I think that I'm the best person I have not chosen a problem where I have no clue about. And second is I'm taking customer feedback very seriously if the customer says no. We have already scrapped some of the features from Narad because our customers were not able to understand. And I'm like, it doesn't matter if my team has spent even one month building this feature, but if this feature is confusing my client or my customer or my user, rather than convincing him I should get rid of it. This is something we didn't knew back then. Back then it's like build, build, build. But this time it's like, get feedback, get feedback, get feedback. So these are. I think these are two major points that I have. There are some small other lessons, but I think these are two major point that I have got from my previous journey, which I won't say I hundred percent doing it right now, but at least I'm trying to do it better this time. And I think rest the journey will show.
Mino Vlachos: Yeah. Is there anything you feel is different about you as a leader or as an individual this time around that has also enabled your success?
Manoj Adwani: Yeah. I think in last three years I've become much more confident compared to last time. So some people might take it that I'm too egoistic, but now every call, every client call, I go, I'm always like, okay, you might be best, but I'm little better than you. I always go with that mindset. I think the kind of confidence that I have now, I didn't, I didn't have this confidence last time. I don't know why was it something might be because I didn't knew enough or I, I was new to the industry, I was new to the ecosystem, but my confidence level was not this high. I was always trying to go back to my Barclays label. That was. I was trying to, you know, hide all my problems. But this time I'm putting my knowledge first. Okay. When you talk about all these jargons that are being used, the product world, in the startup world, all these experiences, how do you pitch, how you not pitch the storytelling and everything. I think there lot I have learned and I think there lot yet to learn. But I think the best thing that has happened in last three years because of all this knowledge, I become much more confident and I also, I know that how to take back the feedback. I don't think I had it last time. I think that failure has made me much more humble as I'm confident. But the humble is the last time. At the same time, if you say, if someone is telling me it's wrong. I'm like, okay, okay, it's wrong. Yes, let's do it. I accept it, but I don't let that hamper my confidence. Oh, no. What to do? No, it's wrong. It's wrong. It's okay, I'm wrong. Okay, you tell me what you can. What, how can, how can I correct it? And I do it correct right then? So my customer feels like, ah, he listens to us. He's not that. He doesn't take the feedback. So I think these are the two major points which I'm doing differently, and I hope I am doing it right so that, and I think, though the time will tell, I don't think anyone can judge it now. I think when the time will tell, these are two major points that I, I become much more confident. At the same time, I become too much humble to take the feedback. Last time, if anyone would give me the feedback, I really get hurt, but I don't get hurt anymore. I think I've become too, too stubborn now.
Mino Vlachos: Yeah. Yesterday, for myself, I called it an emotional callus. Like, there's just this, like, I can't even call it toughness, but there's just a, I don't know, like, it just doesn't hit in the same way anymore. Like, things that I know three years ago used to drive me crazy. Now they happen and it's like, as if nothing happened. It's like not even, I can't even register. It's just not, it's a non issue. So that's why I really believe that in some capacity, if we bring consciousness and awareness to this process, it's such a beautiful platform for personal development, for self development. Not that someone should do it just for that reason, and not that it necessarily will lead to that, but it can, it can be a beautiful platform where we learn how to be this beautiful, confident, but humble person. Like you said, I think that's a beautiful thing. And I really value everything you've shared with us today. Do you have any? I'm going to start to bring us slowly to an end. Do you have any last thoughts or advice that you would like to impart with people as part of the experience you've had and what you've learned along the way?
Manoj Adwani: Yeah. So, you know, one very, very important thing that I have learned throughout my life, I might not be very successful person because I think, like, I'm not a millionaire or I'm not. I'm yet to make my mark in my life. I think one thing that I learned from whatever little I have achieved in my life, is that to believe in the process, you have to believe in the process. And I'm telling you, things take their own time. But it happens for sure. If a person like me who comes from nowhere and if you can reach ranks in Barclays and go to places like Singapore and Europe, meet people, fantastic people like you and your other co founders, and, you know, do all these things, I'm telling you, things happen, but you have to keep faith. Even like when I'm talking to you right now, I'll show you the, if you see this kind of a painting at my back, it has got to be a star and I believe in it and I'm sure it will happen one day. I don't know when, I don't have a date, I don't have a deadline. So I tell this to everyone, you have to keep your faith. You have to keep things will happen. Hundred percent will happen, but it can only happen one, you have to believe in it. Second, you to keep working on it. If you're not doing any one of these, it won't happen. So I think this, that's the biggest thing I learned in my life. And I've seen that every time I take something very, very positively, it has happened. Sometimes I also feel there are things in my life, you know, if I, if I really look at the kind of background I come from, there are things that happen to me and I'm like, how can, how can I do this? You know, how can this come to me? But it's because it was the process and it was a work I put to get in. So faith, faith, faith, have faith, work for it. Things will happen and you will see it yourself. It does work. It does work. It works. It works hundred percent. And I'm a huge believer and I'm telling from experience, lot of good things have come to me because I believe in it. And even today I believe in it. It will happen for sure. So I think that's the big thing, the big takeaway, if anyone wants to take away from this podcast.
Mino Vlachos: And one of the reasons that both my co founders and myself, we really enjoy you and speaking with you is that when it comes to Manoj, my experience is that it's all based on experience. It's not theory. So even when you were talking about going to conferences, building social capital, we met you, my co founders met you in Germany, and now you're on a podcast that's largely listened to in the United States and in Europe. And so Manoj doesn't talk in theory. He does the things he talks about and the experiences have been distilled down into what I call wisdom. And it's beautiful to hear your stories, Manoj, to have you here with us today and to really learn from you. Because for many people who are endeavoring this, it's good to know what you're getting yourself into. It's a beautiful journey, one that I think is a worthwhile journey. And, yeah, I don't know if it's just a bit of the first startup founder vibe of being a bit stubborn and not taking advice, but I wish I could listen to this podcast when I first started my business and learn from someone like Manoj, I'm still learning from you right now and taking notes in my notebook of like, oh, yeah, maybe we should do that a little different. So thank you for sharing your experience with us, your wisdom with us. I'm so grateful to have met you, and I'm very happy that we get to build this community that's truly global, international, and bridge across our different nations. So thank you. Manoj.
Manoj Adwani: Yeah, thank you so much. Meeno, thanks to you. Thanks to the three big consulting for even considering a person like me who's yet to break through who is yet, who is yet figuring out things. Thank you so much for giving me this opportunity to share whatever little I have learned through my life. And I think it was quite kind of a very awakening experience for me where I had to, you know, go back, and we spoke a lot of things about what I did at Barclays, what I did at my first startup, though I won't lie that I won't say that I still think of all these things every day, but I think, you know, sitting down with me and listening so much patiently with me, you know, it's not that easy because I know listening to someone else's story so patiently is not that easy. So I really appreciate what we could do today. Sit down, go through everything, and thank you so much for this opportunity. I hope I really could add value even a bit, even if I, if this can even help, you know, 1%, if there is even one takeaway someone can take away from this, I will be really, really happy. I'll be really painful, and, you know, thank you so much again, thank you so much. Really means a lot to me. My first ever podcast, and in English, because I told you when I started, I had never done a podcast in English. So thank you so much. Thanks for it. Thanks for all the preparation that you, even through the emails, the audience might not know, but I think. Thank you so much for all the preparation that you kept me updated and everything. Really looking forward. Thank you so much.
Mino Vlachos: Thank you so much, Manoj. And so with that, we're going to end our episode for today. Thank you, everyone, for listening, and we'll see you again soon. Bye bye.
Manoj Adwani: Thank you so much. Bye.