E27 Master The Art Of Holidays
December 2024
90 minutes
E27 Master The Art Of Holidays
December 2024
90 minutes
Stream on:
Studies hows that the vast majority of Americans experience more stress after the Christmas and New Year's holidays. Why does time off make us more anxious and depressed?
In this episode we take a deep dive on the source of holiday stressors, their causes and ways to manage stress.
We then look at a comprehensive meta-analysis on the art and science of taking great breaks, vacations and holidays.
Whether small breaks during the workday, long weekends, vacations, or holidays such as Christmas and New Year's... this is the definitive episode for leaders looking to master the art of taking meaningful and restorative breaks.
0:00 - 5:01 Introduction To Taking Restorative Breaks 5:01 - 9:03 How To Process Stress 9:03 - 10:47 The Importance Of Taking Breaks 10:47 - 14:42 Holiday Stress And Expectations 14:42 - 18:37 Holidays Gifts And Consumerism 18:37 - 22:42 New Year's Resolutions And Expectations 22:42 - 26:37 Family Dynamics During Holidays 26:37 - 30:26 Coping With Family Conflict 30:26 - 32:23 Staying Connected With Family 32:23 - 37:20 Negative Coping Mechanisms 37:20 - 46:12 Positive Coping Mechanisms And Recovery Strategies 46:12 - 49:44 Key Principles For Recovery From Work 49:44 - 52:59 The Power Of Physical Activity For Recovery 52:59 - 56:54 Understanding The Recovery Paradox 56:54 - 01:02:09 Finding Motivation In Low Energy States 01:02:09 - 01:08:30 Digital Devices During Recovery 01:08:30 - 01:12:05 Influence Of Romantic Partners On Recovery 01:12:05 - 01:14:31 Effective Strategies For Workplace Recovery 01:14:31 - 01:24:43 Maximizing Vacation Benefits 01:24:43 - 01:30:25 A Guided Meditation For Gratitude
3Peak Coaching & Solutions is a leadership consultancy dedicated to Elevating Executive Mastery.
We specialize in transforming businesses through leadership and team development during transitions and times of crisis.
We focus on the 3 critical areas where chaos and conflict are most likely to appear:
By addressing these flashpoints, we assist you in navigating change to build unity, create certainty, and establish clear direction.
Our approach empowers leaders to master complex challenges and transform their companies to thrive now and in the future.
Mino Vlachos: Hello and welcome to the 3Peak Master Leadership Experience. My name is Mino Vlachos and I'm the co founder of 3Peak Coaching & Solutions. 3Peak Coaching & Solutions is a leadership consultancy dedicated to elevating executive mastery. We specialize in transforming businesses through leadership and team development. During transitions and times of crisis. We focus on three critical areas where chaos and conflict are most likely to appear. Board, CEO and C suite Misalignment Transitions into executive leadership Conflict between functional departments. By addressing these flashpoints, we assist you in navigating change to build unity, create certainty and establish clear direction. I'm going to start today's episode with a rhetorical question for the audience, which is have you ever taken a vacation, come back and said I need another vacation where you come back and you just don't feel well rested, you still feel stressed and then you have to go back to work. Today's episode is all about the science and art of taking good breaks, taking good holidays, taking good vacations. And so today I have with me my Co founders of 3Peak Coaching and Solutions, Doctor of Neuroscience Mazen Harb, and psychologist and therapist Krisana Locke. And together we're going to explore all the wonderful ways in which we can take very good and needed vacations, holidays and breaks. So I'm going to start with a bit of a story and then, Kristen, I'm going to have a question for you so you get ready. What I notice around the holidays, and we're recording this right before the kind of Christmas, New Year's holiday break, is that a lot of Americans, because I live in the US they start to drive really funny a couple days before Christmas. Some are like drifting out of lanes, some are hyper aggressive. I've made a rule for myself in the last few years that I just won't unless I have to. I won't drive the two days before Christmas outside because the drivers are just very, very erratic, unpredictable. And I have this sense, especially living in the US that up until the Christmas break, people are go, go, go, go, go, do, do, do, do, do. And then all of a sudden they take a break, they take a pause and it's something happens from going from do, do, do, do, do, no reflection, no breaks to all of a sudden I stop working. Krisana, what happens when we're in kind of like do, do, do, do mode? What might be, what might we experience when that happens?
Krisana Locke: So what we're experiencing is happening on the body and emotional processing where the body's probably having to all of a sudden regulate Everything that's happening and high stress is indicating that you're very much in high sympathetic and it's on, on, on all the time. And when you stop so suddenly, it's the. Because you have a break. It's I'll do the most easy. It's almost like whatever's been in the under that's been stressing, it comes up and it's thrown up to the surface. So you sometimes do even get more stress. You have more stress on the body. You have high expectations that you want to have a really great holiday. You judge yourself, things aren't going well expectations. And this builds to the stress in the body. So a lot of it is. That's what happens. And we go from high stress, high office or work tension and then we go into slumping and trying to enjoy. And so we sit on all of that and it starts to brew and then we feel a lot and we just don't know how to regulate all that. But we do know how to regulate it. We're going to give some tips later.
Mino Vlachos: And so just to continue with that. Krisana. So if I'm getting this right, we have stress and we have this idea that I take a vacation, I'm going to be relaxed. But actually for some people we might feel in the beginning maybe even like the same or worse. Is that true?
Krisana Locke: Yes. Yeah, that does happen. Because when you do stop, when you step out of active mode or you step out of these patterns of stress and you do stop, then you sometimes actually feel like heightened, more heightened stress because everything has time to start releasing or processing. So you may feel that on the body more so as you know, I know from even traveling and trips, traveling and going somewhere, usually the first day it's like our orientation trying to settle in the body. So it's usually the next day. So things the body mind says now we're not in that mode anymore. So I want to process that. So it does happen. Yeah. And if you're not aware of it, it's yeah, the body is the body, mind is now the body and emotions are trying to now regulate and then you freak out more like what is happening? I should be relaxed. So you just go through it.
Mino Vlachos: Mazen, can you tell us a little bit about. We talk a lot about the concept of processing and I would like to understand from you it's maybe it's a big question or a small question. I actually don't know. But the core of it is like what is processing? And I'll give a little bit of like I know when I'm like have like meeting after meeting after meeting and I'm working, working, working, right? So I'm just going, going, going. And then at night I turn off my laptop and then I'm kind of getting hit with like the Krisana mentioned kind of like stressors and worries and rumination and it's like. So it's like I'm going through like a catalog of my day. So can you tell us what is processing and why there's this like buildup that occurs? Yeah, if you can direct us a little bit, guide us here.
Dr. Mazen Harb: Yeah, sure. I will give it a really easy metaphor. The first thing that comes to mind. Imagine you have a big meal. The moment you finish the big meal, really you want to sit. You live on the fourth floor. The door rings or the buzzer rings, intercom ring. And then you have to move your car. Then you have to go down very fast because you're blocking a fire truck. You go down, you have to move your car, you have to find a place somewhere. You find it whatever, three, four blocks away, 15 minute walk. Then you run back because you have a meeting. Then you run up and then you sit and you sit with your peers. And then in the same time, at certain point you have to go bring your kid from the kindergarten. Just immediately after it, you finish and then you run. So here I gave an example of eating. So processing, it's not a philosophical thing. We work with lots of people on personal development. We tell them it's time to process, it's time to feel. The question that we've been hearing from people who worked with us for years, more than five, six, seven years. But how do I feel? How do I process? It's not an action by itself. Actually, it's the opposite. It's a transition. You finished eating, it could have taken five minutes to sit and do nothing. So processing can happen. So integration can happen. That's my answer. So it's something that happens to you rather than something that you do.
Mino Vlachos: And so we're talking today about breaks, taking breaks. You're a neuroscientist, physiologist, biologist. Can you tell me why take breaks? Like what is the importance of taking a break? Why can't I just work, work, work, work, work, sleep, work, work, work, work, work.
Dr. Mazen Harb: I'm really enjoying today. The only example are coming is really metaphors. Imagine you do the same thing for your car. I leave it for people who have cars and then they will understand. You know, like in the traffic jam, like there, the heat Goes up and all of that. You have to check it, you have to stop a little bit. You have to check your, the tires, the brakes. Imagine back then when we didn't have cars, we had horses. You cannot, at certain point, the horse will revolt. It will take a lot. So you have to see your body, mind like a horse, and then you will get the answer. I will leave that exercise to you.
Mino Vlachos: And so I'm going to now open up one small study that was done by the American Psychological Association. So this is on our friends and my compatriots, the United States Americans, which, sorry, guys, but I think we're a little bit of an extreme case here. So I'm going to use us as a bit of the extreme example because while there's a lot of richness for our friends around the world in this, in this episode, they do take holidays. They do tend to take some more breaks. There is a bit of a different philosophy around working and living. So I'm going to use our friends, the Americans, to bring some of this to the light. So the American Psychological association looked at holiday stress, and this is a 2023 study. So this was last year. And when Americans took the holiday season last year, 52% of them felt their stress was the same levels during the holiday. So whatever they entered in, that's what they exited with. There was no change for 41% of Americans. Their stress increased throughout the holiday season. Only 7% of Americans had a decrease in stress when they took time off during the holidays. So either you stayed the same or your stress levels went up. So the holidays for many of us, and when I say it stayed the same, a lot of people are entering already with stress. It's not that they entered tranquilo and stayed tranquil, it's they either entered stress and stayed stressed or got more stressed. And that is holidays, at least in the United States. And so we're going to go through a few of the findings in this kind of smaller study before we turn into like, well, what do I actually do with this? How do I have a good break, a good time, a good holiday? It's not just a, it's actually very, going to be a very positive episode. We're going to stay with stress just for a little bit longer. And I'm going to talk about first. Well, okay, we have 93% of Americans feeling stressed during the holidays. Why? So they did us. They did. Part of the study was figuring out what are some of the core things that lead people to feeling stress. And I'm gonna start with the first one. 58% of people who experienced like high stress in the, in the holiday season, it was because they were spending too much or not having enough money to spend. So it is really around. And then the next one is like finding the right gifts, right? So that's 40%. So 58%. It's about I don't have enough money to spend on gifts. And the next 40% is I can't find the right gifts. So the gift giving and the financial part of the Christmas holidays in the United States creates a tremendous amount of pressure and stress for people. So I'm going to start with Mazen. Can you tell us a little bit about, from your, from your kind of perspective when it comes to kind of gift giving expectations, money stress, how these all could create a concoction where the holidays end up being more unhealthy than healthy for us.
Dr. Mazen Harb: I had a few jokes. I'm like, I hope there's no really good government. Economists was like, okay, I hear what they did. So let us stop all holidays because we don't want them to be stressed. So I really want to bring us, bring us back to the idea that what is that? Stress. And when we say stress, not all stress are alike. And then here we say, okay, I read this journal. I made a joke, right? So okay, so that means holiday is stressful. So holiday is bad. I'm like, it's a different stress here they're dealing with. Do not, we should not forget that employees, they have predictability during the day. So they deal with pressure and stress. But it's very specific and they got their comfort zone within that kind of stress and they know how to cope with it. So when they go to holidays, it's a different kind of stress. And this is sometimes more exhausting, but let me repeat it. It's a different kind of stress. So if we cancel it, it doesn't make sense actually in a sense of we really need to understand the root of it. So the root of it actually is really as you said, so it's expectation. First of all, there is no order. There is no 9 to 5 job. There is no boss. There is no, there's a human psychologies being played. And then I really want to satisfy others. I don't have money or I have too much or I expend. So we really go into the human psyche beyond work day to day that Americans are used to. So again, different kind of stressor and different quality.
Mino Vlachos: Krisana, what's your feeling when you hear about Most Americans are really stressed. 93% are quite stressed. And the number one, number two reasons are around I don't have enough money for gifts and I can't find the right gift. What would be maybe your some advice to our, to my fellow countrymen?
Krisana Locke: Well, one thing is consumerism. We have such a high. We have to consume, consume, consume. And we're thinking that the holiday season is about. We must, must have gifts. And the pressure, the expectations. This just drives up the stress levels. And then also even when we go on a vacation or holidays like stepping out of comfort zone of home of work, wanting to have a good time out of your comfort zone expectations. It wasn't what it was. The people didn't really. If you give gifts where they really appreciated and judgments. So expectation, expectations, pressure expectations and judgments. And that's inside of everyone that we can witness and see how we can do it a different way. Because how many times we say every Christmas now this time I'm gonna have a really good time. I'm gonna make sure it doesn't go the same way. So you already put a high expectation and I'm gonna really give gifts the right way. So pressure. And that's what I can say a lot of these things that we can start looking in our own behaviors because it's a lot of unconscious habits that we're doing.
Mino Vlachos: Yeah. I'll share a little bit of my personal story here is a few years back I had a decision where I like I personally gift giving and gift receiving of I'm going to bring in like the love languages is one of my lowest love languages. It's not as important to me. If I get like a rare random kind of very meaningful gift from a friend then it very much touches me. Like Mazen brought me back this like hand carved stone tablet from Egypt. I don't even know how to describe it. It's one of my favorite things that I own right. Like I put on my desk every day. Like it touches me so much. But then I receive gifts which is just like here's an Amazon box and it's like thrown to me, thrown in my face. And it's like from Jeff Bezos and some Chinese kid who built it here. And I'm like it doesn't really mean that much to me. So a few years ago I dec. I wasn't going to get anything from my family because I didn't want to. I didn't feel called to purchase like cheap Amazon things for them. So I thought to myself like what could I do this Christmas to really give something to my family that's meaningful to them and meaningful to me. So I wrote each person in my family like a handwritten letter just expressing how much I love and appreciate them. And for all the Christmases we've had, it was the first time I've seen my family members really tear up or cry. And it was a very beautiful exchange change. And I don't do that every year, but it was something that felt right in the moment where I really wanted to give them something and I received back because I received all the emotion that they expressed last year. Right. Like when our, we're in a startup business, 3P coaching and solutions. So I just didn't have money for gifts. So I just was like, I don't have money. I can't, I can't purchase you anything. Even. Like, my sister got married this year. I didn't have money to give her a gift. And for me, like, there's some part of me that like, I still am digesting that, processing it. But gift giving is not the end all, be all. Like, we can make it what we need to make it and it can be flexible. So I just invite people to really kind of bring awareness to the gift giving process and to make sure that it really feels right and that you can afford it and don't just throw it on a credit card in like typical American fashion. And then we have to spend the next few months paying it off. Actually, Krisana, then what came up for me as you were sharing is another holiday which is right around the corner from Christmas is New Year's Eve. And there's a lot of expectations on New Year's Eve as well. For some, it's like, I'm gonna find my true love and have a New Year's kiss. For some, it's, I'm gonna start fresh New Year, new me. I'm going to the gym, baby. Like, there's all of this pressure that this year is my year. Right. This year is going to be different. So, Chris, Annika, you tell us a little bit about that New Year's expectations and how that might. Yeah. Not be as supportive.
Krisana Locke: Sometimes for people it's not so supportive because we leave it, we say, okay, everything I'm going to pin my good intentions on, I'm going to do on New Year's Eve. This is going to set me going. And plus then we have lots of food and we have lots of alcohol. We may even go out to celebrate and longing to be, to be with people that we love or Longing just to be celebrating and kissing someone and celebrating, ah, the New Year with all that, the food, the alcohol, the stress, the high expectation, the high. I want to set a good intention the next day. Your mood is already down because you've eaten too much, you're drinking too much alcohol. And the high expectation of I should start a new year. It's terrible. It's, it's, it's usually the next day. It's, it's very flat. Because the desires of the mind are much bigger than the set habits and behaviors that we want to shift. So they don't shift overnight.
Mino Vlachos: Mazen if someone's like, I'm going to do this New Year's resolution, I'm going to change my whole life. Day one. What we know empirically is that most resolutions within a week, the majority of them end up not being fulfilled within a month. Everyone's forgotten about it. So tell me a little bit about like what goes wrong a little bit there and then, well, what, what is a sustainable or more like true way of changing one's habits? So like, yeah, maybe I do want to change something in my life. I do want to go to the gym more. I do want to do more sports. Like what's the difference between like doing that in a way where like it sticks versus like New Year's resolution, New Year, new me.
Dr. Mazen Harb: It's really to demystify or debunk the illusion. There's 364 days where they're not doing it easy. They didn't train for it, they didn't have discipline, they didn't have right intention. They, so they come one day, they feel like a gate open. All right. In that day I forget who I am. I forget all my training and I don't want to do anything for it. I just wish it. And then it will happen on the first day. Then you have another 364. Actually. Nobody want to really align with their intention. It's really done from a wishy like space. Oh, I wish that I desire that. But doesn't come from a place of really truthfulness because again, they still have 364 days before that one day to really align. They can start the gym at any moment of that day. They can make a resolution. So it's this scam. Like there is one day where I can start resolution. But people forgot every day you can start a resolution to change a pattern or to be a different person.
Mino Vlachos: And so now I want to go into another stressor. So looking at that same study. So here we Have a kind of different people have different experience on this one. The number three stressor during the holidays, 38% of people they miss their family or loved ones they're missing, they're missing their family. And conversely about 25% are experiencing or anticipating family conflict. That's another one. So some people are really missing their family and some people are fighting with their family. But either way it drives up the stress levels during the holidays. Kristana, can you tell me a little bit about if we take each one of those. I mean they're huge topics right. And a life lifetime of unpacking for people their relationship with families. But can you tell me a little bit about the conflict with the family? I know we've been joking about the TV show the Bear of late and there's one episode where I feel like they stuffed a panic attack inside of an episode which is their holiday episode with the family. But what advice, just what advice would you give people where conflict might be part of the menu?
Krisana Locke: First we have to start with ourselves having again high expectations, having also being judgmental about others behaviors and wanting everything and trying to control how it should be. The thing with conflict is it's basically what's the conflict over is not what it's seen on the surface and it's really underneath it's a lot about respect and love and appreciation. But when we live on the level of the on the surface level like wanting to receive that from others and we don't get it, this sets up a huge conflict of the others not doing it for me or I want it a certain way so it's unconscious. So when this is happening it's like how can one not judge it's happening in a family gathering? And how one can use healthy boundaries or step away or what they can do to diffuse it for themselves because they may not be able to diffuse others. So to go with not trying with a plan like it's going to be different this time and to have healthy breaks, have healthy boundaries and also have time for yourself. So things like this one needs to do, one needs to cannot say I can't change my family overnight. And also family gatherings brings us belonging. Yeah when we were young we were in those times when we were together and we're still looking for that. But there's a lot of emotional wounds are out coming together. So it is all unconscious. And not to judge it too much but how we can be more conscious and aware when we're in those situations ourselves.
Mino Vlachos: Yeah, I just want to, I feel called to Share my flavor of it, which I've realized over the years, is, you know, I have a passionate Mediterranean family. And I think one of the things that we enjoy is the togetherness. Like, we all do stuff together, we hang out with each other. But I've realized over the years there's this healthy. Taking breaks from each other during the holidays. So, yeah, we can all sit in one house, one room, doing everything, every meal, everything. Together, together, together. But to step away once in a while and take a walk, take a break, go do something. I don't know. But even just to individuate a bit, and then we come back together, and then we individually and to create more of an oscillation where we still are really with each other, we get to enjoy each other, but there's not this, like, constant. We're always doing everything together.
Krisana Locke: Exactly. Yeah. So it's healthy boundaries and separating that and knowing when you need to, like, go for a walk. This will help also diffuse whatever's going on. And also separating. Actually, when people have a lot of tensions around family gatherings, often they separate and then they'll start looking at their work emails. Then they go into another stress. So holidays is like really to don't look at any work emails or to separate. So how you can separate, because that's the first go to how. What do I do? But it's really go outside, go for a walk, go in your room or something. Something that even for 20 minutes or an hour, you have some time that you have a breather. It's got healthy boundaries to deal with it.
Mino Vlachos: And let's also look at the other one I mentioned, which is missing your family. So both of you are originally living in different. You were born in different countries in the one you're living in now. So, Mazen, I know you do tend to sometimes, either at the holidays or around the holidays, still get to see your families or part of your family, but you don't live with them. Right. Like, you have a brother in Portugal. Your other brother and mother are in Lebanon. Um, how do you kind of like, stay connected with your family? Stay, like, in a nice field with your family, even when you're not physically with them?
Dr. Mazen Harb: Yeah, I'm just trying to see from which side do I answer it? Because I know lots of people are really listening to that to give them the proper answer. I don't have it because my way how to deal with it is many years of being away. And I wouldn't say away, because I'm not away. I am where I should Be where I am. And for me, probably Kristana will answer it at certain point better. But for me, I don't see missing like that I was missing in the past. But then I realize when I'm in deep connection with my family, when I can connect to them at any moment, when they're in my heart, I really cannot see myself missing them. When I arrived to France like 20 years ago, back then WhatsApp didn't exist. We used to pay per minute euro or something like something around 2004, I'm talking here, we used to miss them. So I really want to make something clear. The missing that happens 20 years before and all the centuries before, when parents, when kids used to leave the house and they immigrate. Even in the US they immigrated. We really need to understand they are now conditioned words. But they do are. They don't exist in the same sphere. At this moment in time and space, we can contact any loved one. The end of the world. The heart doesn't know time and doesn't know limitless. I can be at any moment in time and space with loved ones. So I really cannot miss them in that way. What I miss is memories of myself as a young kid with them. And that's the truth. So when people say about missing. So yeah, okay, I see now I'm giving the answer. When people talk, I really miss my family. What they missing is the old memories to be around, to feel that belonging. Things they lived in the past. But something I can. I was thinking about that they can at any moment open their computer. Imagine they're like three, four brothers, sisters. They can all be in one room, a virtual one. This for the heart. It doesn't make a difference for the mind to hear the voice of your family, of your parents, to hear the voice of your brother and sister and then to. It's still the same. So again, missing is something to be questioned from oneself.
Mino Vlachos: Krisana, a lot of your family is in Australia. How do you cultivate a sense of love and connection with your family who is halfway across the world?
Krisana Locke: We're in contact a lot because now these days, you know, with WhatsApp, with video calls. So it's. It's very easy. Even on Christmas time. It's the summer there. So they're all at, you know, we're having a barbecue out on the boats from Sydney and everyone will wish somewhere merry, happy Christmas. Merry Christmas or happy holidays. I have a really big family. So over the years we have just. It's quite a lot to come together because it's like, it's really like 22 people, 25 people. So coming together for a gathering. And we've all talked about it and have said actually too stressing because it's too much every. And even if I fly to Australia, it's a lot because everyone wants to talk to you. So it's a lot of like emotional processing. So I do actually have to come back and then have another, another holiday. Everyone, because it's a passionate family, we love each other, everyone wants to really see each other. And if there's food, there's alcohol and they want to tell their stories, it's like a lot. So for us, we stay in contact a lot. And I'm so happy we have mediums with WhatsApp and Zoom. Because when I lived in New York years ago, I used to get those cards and you go to a phone box and you get these five dollar cards. And I would ring and I'd be sitting in a phone box, freezing in Manhattan, talking to my brothers and sisters or my dad. And it's summertime there. So I really, really do like to connect with them. But as Mazen said, it's the old associations, but the cherished associations of belonging. But in our family, we don't give gifts anymore, but we cook food together or we do separate Christmas celebrations with sub families and then we make a round over 12 days. So it's a very in, out. It's like a. It's like a tribe, actually. It's very juicy.
Mino Vlachos: Nice. And so now we're going to turn to one last topic here. And this is for Mr. Mazen.
Dr. Mazen Harb: Sure.
Mino Vlachos: Should I say Dr. Mazen as we talk about one last thing on stress, which is I'm going to read from the study Now. Close to 2 in 5 adults, so almost 40% who experienced stress during the holiday season said they used negative coping mechanisms, such as isolating themselves, changing their eating habits by overeating or restricting their diets, or relying on substances such as alcohol or nicotine to feel better. And so here we have this big stressful occasion for a lot of people, 93% and 40% are turning to negative coping mechanisms. And there's also part of the study that's about positive. People are also turning to positive coping mechanisms as well. We're going to get to that in the second half of this podcast, right after this question. But I want to hear a little bit. Mazen, can you tell us a little bit about negative coping mechanisms? And I'm curious to hear, especially if we think of like A holiday as like a one week. Right. Like we're taking about 10 days off collectively, like around Christmas to New Year's. It's a time of like slowness and you're going, you're going into more negative coping mechanisms. Right. So tell us a little bit about like what happens after. So like the holiday is done, I'm back to work and I spent, you know, the week really in this space of like using negative coping mechanisms to get through.
Dr. Mazen Harb: So what happens after that week, that intense week?
Mino Vlachos: You could tell me also during. But I really want to hear like, what's the effect afterwards?
Dr. Mazen Harb: Yeah, I believe everybody now listening, they're like, they know what it is.
Krisana Locke: And also it's toxic. They know kind of know it's been a toxic, toxic week.
Dr. Mazen Harb: I think two things part of them, they're happy, they're back.
Krisana Locke: Yeah.
Dr. Mazen Harb: To routine. Right. So it made people realize everything. They've been complaining, oh, I want a break. Oh, I want to be in holidays with family. They realize, hmm, actually I'm happy to go to my life, to, into my daily day to day life. I really want to go backwards a little bit and please, if I forget to answer that, please bring it back. The negative coping mechanism that we have, I really want to because, you know, I really love to go to the root. I love the root of it. Why we do what we do during holidays so then we really suffer from it is mainly because it's a topic I've been really working with people. It happened the last 10 days because we are betraying ourselves every single moment on holidays because we don't do the things that we love. We stop working and then we stop following up. I don't know, the wife, the husband, the kids, this, that we really never stop for one moment and check actually, what do I need at this moment? So we never go into a restful state. We never go into something fulfilling. So it's compromise upon compromise and ah. And the mother asks to go to dinner and this asks and you say yes, yes, yes. Because that's how the holidays. You don't want to be different. You don't want to be the black sheep of. Sheep of the family. So actually it's the accumulation of really betraying yourself and you really what you need pushes you to go to negative, to coping. Me, negative coping mechanism. Here the negative coping mechanism are necessary because the person is not feeling right. So again, I wouldn't judge the negative. They're drinking a lot. I'm like, yeah, what do they do else? They're really not feeling good. So then they go with that. Okay, now coming to the question. So they do all that is really, they didn't tap what do they need? Then they go and find ways to help themselves. Alcohol, substances, food, over socialization. And they really miss themselves deeply. So.
Krisana Locke: And disassociation, isolation.
Dr. Mazen Harb: Exactly. Or yeah. So for me, I like one of the idea. I see a person sitting on a, on a Monday from a holiday. It's really sitting, looking at the skin like this, like zombie, what just happened to me. So the body really need to go into a full recovery, to be honest. Like everything is really disturbed, disrupted, physiologically, everything is disrupted. And then you hear most of the time. And Kirstena mentioned that people say, oh my God, I really need no holiday. So again, it's really, it's more tiring actually sometimes after the holiday than before the holiday. But again, it's a different kind of stress and they get different kind of tiredness.
Mino Vlachos: Okay, so I think we've done, I think we've done a pretty good job at this point talking about how holidays in some ways can become more stressful than beneficial. Right. That's a choice. That's a pathway we can take. We've talked a lot about how we might feel like we need recovery and rest after a period that's meant to, in theory, be recovery and rest. So let's now chart a different course. And this is where we're going to shift. And I want to actually go to. There was a very large meta analysis done a couple years ago, 2022, about, well, how do we actually take good breaks? How do we take good vacations? How do we take good holidays? It's all about the science of great vacations. Right. And so that's what we're going to get into now. And so I'm going to start going through the study and just giving little clips, little summaries, and we're just going to give a little bit of input. But this is really about how to have a good, productive, kind of restful break. So with this study, there's a couple things I want to just say up front is one they looked at when it comes to recovery, breaks, vacations, holidays, the things we're about to talk about next, is there a difference based on your age or your gender? And there's no evidence that age or gender has an influence or relationship on recovery and its outcomes. So what we're talking about is really going to be universal advice. They even looked at the big five personality to say, okay, is there personality Factors that make a difference about the stuff we're going to talk about. And the answer is no. There's no evidence that personality plays any factor in what we're going to talk about. So it's really like universal, like human principles that we're about to talk about when it comes to recovery activities. So if you're sitting there and saying I'm somehow special or different. Yeah, maybe just take a look at that. Because what we're about to share is really universal principles. All right, let's talk about recovery. So we're going to start with talking a little bit about the concept of recovery from the study. And then we're going to get into kind of taking breaks, holidays, vacations. So the first thing that the study kind of looks at is this concept of kind of like low duty versus high duty, how much like duties we feel like we have. So recovery activities usually have a low duty profile, which are different from high duty profile, which is like household activities or childcare. So recovery activities don't feel like a burden. That's like the very basic thing that we're going to start with. They tend to include physical exercise, social activities and low effort activities that are associated with feeling good. Right. So that's the kind of activities we're going to be focusing on. One thing that though is very important, the study finds, is the motivation that we bring to things. So actually if you have a high intrinsic motivation for high duty activities, so if you really genuinely enjoy chores and childcare, like intrinsically brings you joy, well then actually there's a positive association. There's not this exhaustion that can occur. So one thing I wanted to ask you, Mazen, is a little bit about this thing around joy in work. Right. So like we can. Yeah. So there are work tasks that feel like a burden, like chores. Let's take chores, household chores. We'll keep it out of the workplace for a moment. Right. And then there's an attitude we bring to it. Chores like cleaning the kitchen can be something that feels like a burden and a duty or something that can feel joyful. Can you tell me a little bit about how we can tackle some of our out of work activities that could feel like a burden so that they're a little bit more kind of intrinsically motivating.
Dr. Mazen Harb: The first thing that comes to mind is timing. Timing is very crucial. Yet ones listening, it's not like, oh, when is it the time? Actually it's called timing, so I cannot tell you when. So it's an inner balance, it's an inner Barometer, right. So it's inner compass. I don't know, I don't know when is the right timing. All what I know is I'll give example. Like I really have chores I have to do in the house that I really don't necessarily know I will enjoy. Then I wake up and I like it feels heavy. And then I do the thing that makes me feel kind of joyous or like easy maintenance or like and then certain things, timing happens. So with time when people will be more aware and in tuned with their inner inside like inner clocks, inner timing. Every chore can become joyful by transforming it to intrinsic motivation. So intrinsic motivation is there where there is the should is gone. Oh, I should do this, this, this, this, this, this instead of flipping it around. Because when there should it's external motivation or like I should motivation can be, you know, it's obligation. Motivation of obligation. I should because otherwise whatever, I have visitors coming. But when we turn it around, it's internal motivation. We really need to be connected to the body, to trust the flow, to listen to ourselves, listen to the intuition. And then yeah, really full trust. Imagine you have so many chores but at this moment, when you want to start them, you feel, I don't know, I really need at this moment to take care of one plant. And then you spend half an hour taking care of that plant. But your mind's like, but you should do this, this and that. But if you feel in the right moment that feels positive and joyful, this is where the trust should happen because that later on will lead you to the next chore that is positive and joyful and the next one and the next one at the end you end up like cleaning the floor and feeling happy and people will come to you why you're happy and you cannot explain it. And then lately it's been happening to me in the house. Like I don't know why. Like last Sunday, last two Sunday, I was enjoying not going out and I was really to not go out. I was happy that I have chores. So I was like enjoying them more and more. And somebody told me how was this Sunday? It was fantastic. What did you do? Like I took care of the plant, I took care of the house. And if you tell me now do that, I'm like, it's heavy. I really prefer to go do my work or my sports. So again it happened on a timing where I completely enjoy it. I cannot tell you why other than timing and then really following the intuition that is within me.
Mino Vlachos: So this is one of the Keys that we'll leave you with for recovery, holidays, vacations is because we still have responsibilities. Like if I have a child, I can't just lock it in the basement for, you know, a week and pretend it doesn't exist. So one of the keys is how do we turn things into more joyful experiences. And as Mazen shared, we're really tackling the shoulders, the should, the tyranny of the should. Now I'm going to go to the next part of the study that looks at what are the things that really help us when it comes to recovering from work. These are like the key things that they highlight in this study and we're going to refer to back. The first is they call it psychological detachment, which is basically I stop thinking about work, I gain a mental distance from work during non work time. That comes up again and again and again. It's one of the most important parts of recovery is creating some distance from work. The next is relaxation which is really highlighted again and again. This study is around meditation and breathing practices so we can calm the body and the mind. The third is mastery, so experiences for growth so where we can really go through challenges and learn things. The third they call control, which is that people enjoy self determination and agency. So you can choose what you do during non working time. The next one is meaning. So we do things that feel meaningful. So a lot of meaning can be derived according to the study from physical activity, hobbies such as arts and crafts or religious and spiritual activities. And the last one is affiliation. So social activities where we feel connection. So going through them again, these are the critical things if you want to have recovery from work. Whether we're talking about the evening time, the weekend, a holiday. How do I get mental distance from work, how do I calm the body mind? How do I have growth by enjoying things and learning things. How do I have agency and determine how I spend my time? How do I feel meaningfulness and how do I get some social connection? If you really focus on these kind of critical areas then you will recover from work. So I'm going to ask Krisana, when you hear some of these kind of principles, I don't think they're necessarily mind blowing. I think it's a lot of things that we've been sharing already. But when you hear these, how do you feel like these kind of support someone in the recovery process?
Krisana Locke: I feel that the one about you said to disidentify or get some distance from the thinking. That's very difficult to do if people don't understand That M is my thinking process on all the time. So it's understanding when you know, you're just thinking, thinking and how to step out of that. And this is. Sometimes that's very hard to do because it's like trying to stop thinking and you're thinking about it. So this is when you can get into a whole maze in your head. So it's really doing some activity of movement and things in the body. And there's one thing that I want to talk about that when we can have anxiety reduced relaxation when we're trying to reduce. Did I say anxiety induced anxiety induced relaxation? What did I say reduced? Oh no. Anxiety induced relaxation. And we do things to reduce it. So if we've really been understood that when we're really highly stressed and then we go to meditate and we go into a, say a seven day silent meditation retreat, it may be too much for the body and the emotional regulation to just stop because everything goes, I'll throw it out. And so it's going from high stress to stop like a break. It's too fast, too soon. So doing things with mild activities or slowing things down because trying to do things to the book also for that thinking process. If people are not in thinking processes, hobbies are good. And sometimes even I have said to some people, if they're mentally thinking and then they journal sometimes maybe journaling may not be the way. Because journaling is connected to mental activity. So it's kind of to be aware. What does one need in those moments? So for me, sometimes cooking is wonderful. I love cooking. But if I'm cooking for a celebration, that's not my go to to after for intrinsic motivation. For me it's like I'll do something else where I'll. I need to be in nature. So there, there's. One has to bring awareness and understand what all these mean and, and to experience them to see what works. It's not by the book.
Mino Vlachos: So now I'm gonna play a mini game with the two of you just for fun, just to torture you a little bit. But, but they highlight one activity where you can get like the most bang for your buck. When it comes to psychological detachment, relaxation, mastery, control, meaning affiliation. What do you. I just want you to guess. Like if there's one activity that I was like, you can only pick one that a person could do to achieve this state of recovery. What do you think is the activity? Just take a guess. Each of you.
Dr. Mazen Harb: They chose one, they decided one, they.
Mino Vlachos: Did a study, so they have one. And now I'M asking you to just take a guess. Just.
Dr. Mazen Harb: But you know me, I think, you know, I create my own science, my own school. But yeah, for me, I'm gonna give it the one.
Krisana Locke: I think it's the same.
Dr. Mazen Harb: I'm curious to see.
Krisana Locke: Let me say the same time.
Dr. Mazen Harb: No, you go ahead.
Krisana Locke: Sleeping.
Dr. Mazen Harb: Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Yeah, yeah, actually. Okay. It's the same sleeping. And I really. It's. It's more. A bit more of like sleeping. I don't want any other discussion. Sleeping. But. Okay, okay, let us. Let us hear the science.
Mino Vlachos: We'll get back to sleeping. Actually, it will come up in a bit. So this one, actually, what it said, this is kind of. Maybe I should have phrased it. It's kind of what recovery we can do in a conscious state, like when we're awake. Right. And the thing that they chose, not chose, it's like the study shows, is physical activities, particularly in an outdoor environment. If there's one thing that helps people the most, it is physical activities in the outdoor environment. And if you combine it with a social activity, this is where people get the most mileage in their recovery. Then they added a bonus. If you're like, I'm doing that and I want a bonus activity. Creative and cultural activities are the next thing that boost it. So the number one advice if you're recovering from work is go outside and do something physical. If you feel like bringing a friend along, amazing. If you feel like doing something creative, even more amazing. But that's like, if we boil it down, that is what they say is that's what they found empirically, is the best for recovery. Mazen, can you share with us a little bit? Like, why.
Dr. Mazen Harb: Yeah, yeah. Like, just exactly today, metaphors are coming up and, like, it's so universal, it's in front of our nose. And we really cannot see it. Because actually, at the beginning, when you start sharing about the study and about recovery, I wanted to ask you, what do you do for a kid to allow him to recover or to allow him to have a good day, to let go of that energy? So a kid is crying. So first of all, you make him sleep well. He slept well. Later on, you bring him outside for activity. He did that. He started crying. Then you bring friends, kids along. Then he socialized with, of course, with feeding the kid the same thing. And here, like, it's a bit. You have a dog. Everyone who has a pet dog knows that what you just described, what millions of dollars we pay in science. We're going back to the Initial element of universal truth, of laws of nature. You have a dog at house, he will go crazy. It will go crazy. You bring it outside, it release some energy. It connects to nature, to its body. And then it sees another social. It starts to socialize. You bring them back home. The dog is so relaxed. So I'm like, it's really to our Western way of thinking. So much is connected from Earth, from this body that really need to pay. Become intellectual doctors and very serious people to write the same thing. What we do with our dogs and what animals do, I don't know. That's my answer.
Mino Vlachos: Yep. And one thing that I'll continue with this that like surprised me, honestly, it makes again a lot of all this is all very intuitive, common sense. Nothing I'm about to say in the next. You know, few things of the study are going to blow anyone's mind, but it's just really targeting in with like really bang for your buck. But one thing that they shared is that the recovery activities we do during the day are one of the biggest determinants of how we sleep at night and how we wake up the next morning. So the biggest correlation they found of how your next day is the vigor you have, the emotions you have in your morning time is the recovery activities you did during the day before in the middle of the day. So we're on these. Like it's not this disconnect. Like it's not even sleep. Even more than sleep did I recover during the day. Because during recovering the day will help us sleep, which will help us have a good morning. So if you take your walk in the nature with the dog in the middle of the day, there's a higher chance you're going to wake up the next morning feeling great, even though it's almost 24 hours separated. And I actually think this is where, okay, people who are very. In the body, I think very intuitive, they probably see that link for people who are a little bit more disconnected. I don't know because I am one of those. Used to be one of those. I don't know that I would see that immediate link over a long enough cycle. It's like the cause and effect is too far apart from me to notice how a walk will affect me 24 hours later. So that's why I appreciated that little bit of the study of actually the investment we make today pays off tomorrow. But now I want to take us to a bit of a different kind of part of this, which is what they call the kind of recovery paradox, which is basically if we're feeling kind of poor, we're not feeling well, we tend to do very passive activities like watching tv. And passive activities don't very. Don't really help us recover as much as active activities. But if we're feeling great, like, I have a good day, I'm much more likely to go outside and like, move my energy. So the days where we need to move because we're not feeling well, we're going to go passive. The days where we're actually feeling great, we end up moving. There's a paradox. So how do you. And I want to ask, kind of each of you, because this is an important topic and one that I struggle with honestly quite a bit, is like, what happens if you are feeling tired, exhausted, low, like, and the best thing would be go outside and take a walk. But in my head, I'm like, I'm just going to lay on the couch and watch Netflix, which is probably one of the least effective recovery activities I could take in that moment. Can you tell me how if you're working with someone and they're a little bit in that cycle. So I'll start with Krisana. What do you recommend for someone or how would you work with someone like me who might go into more like, I didn't have a good day, I'm going to just lay on the couch.
Krisana Locke: Well, first of all, I'm not going to say you should go out and do activity because immediately there's going to be some resistance. So it's bringing understanding. And also what brings you some joy, what brings you. What do you like to do, what you know. And I also encourage people to even do something for 5 minutes, 10 minutes, build it up. Because there's often this pressure they put on themselves. Like, that means, okay, I have to walk, I have to work 5km every day. But it's just simply incorporating some movement in the day. So understanding some activity, some movement and coming back. Then you can rest on the couch. So it's finding new, healthy habits that you can break old habits. That's what I would say.
Mino Vlachos: Mazen, you're working with someone like me. You're doing like a coaching mentorship. And I'm like, you know, when I have a tough day at work, I just want to sit on the couch, even though that might not help me recover. What's your. What's your go to there?
Dr. Mazen Harb: It's funny because you, you gave an example of, of you. Like, for example, you know, I directly tap into it and then probably I start with you. You want to Sit on the couch. Yeah. I'm like, okay, enjoy it. And then actually that would start. Make you think. And this is why I really try to avoid now to give the Bible of it. It is really. See now what I did to you, right? It made you, it moved something in you, right? I'm like, okay, if that's what you feel, have fun. I'm sure you're asking why he's answering like this. He could have motivated me. We always need someone outside of us to motivate us. That person doesn't exist. And if it exists, it exists for a while. A motivational speaker, a role model. But then those you will revolt against our nature as a humans, we learn from peers, from teachers. But to reach a point, we have to revolt against them because they are hiding from us the real, real motivator, the real teacher within us. So that's why now I, you know, I would tell you so not to play that game. So in a way, if someone is really listening now and is like struggling and one ah, please say the scientific good answer. And I'm like, if not this week, wait. Wait until you connect to the self. Wait until the motivation happens. Don't read it, because if you read it now you're reacting, then you will do it like this. Resolutions. You will go on the New Year's Eve and say, I want to do it because Mazen said so. Because Chris San. Because I heard, I heard this amazing podcast. It motivate me. This is reaction. This is not responding. So I'm like, for everyone who's trying to listen and be motivated about this, my idea is, I hope that you do not. You're not motivated with what we're saying. I hope that you provoke with what we're saying. I hope that you get annoyed, pissed. I hope you understand that we're guiding you toward your inner motivation. Nothing outside of you, no book, no podcast will make you get out of this couch with your fat ass and take care of your body and love your body. You're the only one who need to know how to love your body. So here my answer to you. To remember that you are the only one responsible for loving your body and by all means, find your ways. We're here to support, but we're not here to motivate.
Krisana Locke: I would also say that if you're resting on the couch, I would give a guided meditation on rest. Enjoy it, because really the body, then when the body really rest. That's why we said sleeping motivation. Something intrinsically gets regenerated so it's also finding if you need to do nothing, do something where you really, really rest instead of having just to be engaged in a default loop in I call it a negative default loop. Like okay, I'll do this but you're not really resting. You think you're resting.
Dr. Mazen Harb: So no, it's a good point. She's bringing if we have like just few one, one more minute or so about it. Kristen, I like you really bring it out. Like if someone is resting and they said I should go exercise, but they really are tired the best way they would do and they really see that it's not possible to leave the house. Please, please enjoy the movie. So here we're going to the intrinsic if you're resting, you have an obligation toward your body about loving this body is to enjoy the rest. The issue that people have that they later on are not motivated to go out because they felt guilty resting. So they don't rest, they don't move the body. I want you to go out, why you need to go out. So again, loving the thing you're doing, regardless what it is, the next pulse will happen to move you to the next activity.
Mino Vlachos: And that's the next part I was going to bring up is or we mix and match things, right? So I've had to learn this the last few years is there are times I'm doing a lot of work meetings and I feel tired and I don't feel like going outside or doing this. I say I feel like I want to rest on the bed on the couch. But what I've started to do is I go and I close my eyes and I don't have my phone with me and I'm like, if I'm going to rest, I'm going to be fully committed to resting. And so this brings us to the role of cyber activities. So digital devices, smartphones, tablets and here the interesting, the research is a bit interesting. This is where we see that different people have different responses. And I think there's probably different kinds of cyber activities. So one, for some people, cyber activities lead to bedtime procrastination so they don't fall asleep and they have low sleep quality and low vitality. But there's some positives where it can lead to psychological detachment from work. So there's a mental distance, there's a distraction from work and for some people, actually they end up having higher sleep quality and higher vitality. But one thing that is for sure that they found is that job related use of smartphones and technology. So work related during evening Hours negatively relates to evening recovery experiences and relates to morning depletion. So maybe if you're playing like a video game or something that's random, it might have some benefit to I'm not thinking about work for some people. For some it might lead to I'm scrolling on the Internet and I don't fall asleep. But what's common is if I'm watching work emails, then it just kind of tanks your recovery. So as much as possible, please, if you're wanting to recover, if you choose to recover, choose to put the work emails down. Don't check the work emails, don't do the instant messages. The moment you start to get into that field, it will tank all of it. And then you have to really learn yourself. Like, is it because I can use technology in a way where like, yeah, I stream a movie and the movie can be a support, or is it I'm on like tick tock for two hours and I don't fall asleep. So it's hard to generalize all cyber activities. But we need to really bring some awareness to how we're using these tools and what becomes a resource and what becomes a hindrance. Mazen, is there something. I know you've studied the brain, the technology, everything. So what would you like to share.
Dr. Mazen Harb: With us an analogy? I really want to explain scientifically to demystify the spaces, the mental work spaces, the components, the compartments within our mind and the illusion that we separate physical reality from the mental reality. We believe whatever is physical is more real and more tangible because it's tangible than whatever is mental. Then we give to the mental field lesser importance in interacting within our body, mind, spirit. So we tend to not do those physical activities because they are taxating, but do those mental activity because they're not tangible. So hence we think they're not taxating. What we do not know that they are the same thing expressed differently. I'll give the analogy. You come into a house, very relaxed, holiday season. You enter a corridor. There are like four doors. Two doors on the left, two doors on the right. You open the first one. There's TikTok. All the people you know in TikTok are there. You know, what do you feel? Oh my goodness. And stories and things. And you close it. What do you feel? You need time to process it, right? Like, okay, you enter another door. There is gaming. Oh, cool. You go and then you play with them, but the people are there and there's video games and things. And then you go out like, oof. That was nice. You go Into a third door you open and there's all your coworkers, your boss and then you start chit chatting. You know they're all on screens and you're like, you close the door, how do you feel? Weird. And then you go, last door you open there is your family. Hey, you want to come here? And then they tell you what's happening to you. You tell them I was in the other rooms and they said oh and yeah, I was like I just need time. Okay, so those are physical rooms. In reality those physical rooms happens on your couch with your family and you're not aware that it's the same influence. You open your phone within with your family on holidays and you start to read emails. It's the same effect as coming into a house, opening the door, having all your co workers, the one you like and your on don't like all they're nagging and asking you things and then you close the door. Opening and closing is opening your eye, your phone and closing it. Mental energy, mental compartments. When we take our mental energy somewhere it goes to a place in time and space that is mental but it's similar to physical. And this illusion has to be dropped and once dropped we can take responsibility. So when I'm sitting, do I really want to go and open that meeting room where actually I'm not in that. Even worse people before going into intimacy they get intimate with their lovers or whatever and, or and then they go there and then they open at one moment they check their email and then they go with their lover and I'm like they just invited everyone into the bed or like into this romantic dinner and someone is trying to date someone for the first time. You know, Manhattan walking a date. Someone didn't date since a lot time. Amazing. And then before the person goes into a new date they open, they peak peek, you know, they have a notification, they open their phone just for five seconds they check what's their boss and co workers did they say but that doesn't influence me. We really still believe that words and mental things don't influence it will change everything.
Mino Vlachos: So one other area where we're highly influenced if we can give just a little bit. I want to hear your take Krisana is couples. So one of the findings is that basically the state of one partner really influences the state of the other partner in that when both of the partners are able to focus on not thinking about work and mind body relaxation it leads to mutual like positive emotions. But if someone is thinking about work then both spouses tend to feel negative emotion and there's really low chance of feeling serenity. So can you tell us a little bit about couples and kind of how we influence each other and boundaries and yeah, basically how to have a nice evening with your life partner.
Dr. Mazen Harb: You have to pay for that session.
Krisana Locke: So we've really got into the habits in America and Australia and many places. It's like we come home, we're really happy to meet our beloved one and we ask how are you? How was your day at work? And that just opens a topic, you know, it was good. And so this is not really opening for to have some intimacy. So it's usually a lot of couples need to learn not to bring their talk about their work when they go home. More so if also if couples are doing similar work, are in the same companies or they've met through the same careers, to sit at a table, to have a dinner before going to sleep, even going on vacation to talk about your work together is a. Is not healthy. It's going to lower any sense of wanting to get intimate with each other. So it's starting to, starting to understand and what to do when I, how can I influence when I'm with my partner, how to communicate with each other. And also to be aware of when one is stressed is probably it's not going to be such a healthy time that we're going to really have great intimacy. So taking care of yourself first and letting your partner know, first I need to rest and then I'll meet you later. So there's many factors. But the big thing that I noticed, notice, we do notice is everyone's mixing everything traditionally how it was in the 1950s, the 1960s, you see in these wonderful movies like even Mad Men, you know, just advertising. They went to work, they came home, there was family, there was time, time with their partner, they were, it was all separate. These days we bring everything we mishmash. So it's really again seeing how to create space for true connection, for healthy relating and communication. And also so the heart opens more. And that is an art in itself. For any couple that is an art because it's so easy to just override it and chit chat about everything. So that's what I would say about it. To be aware, create the space.
Mino Vlachos: And so at work, the study found that there are 42 different strategies people can try to use for recovery or energy management. And what they found is like the most effective is taking micro breaks. So take a lot of micro breaks where you either go outside or you socialize but one of the key things that I wanted to bring up before we move on to vacation and holidays is that one thing that really kills recovery is having lunch break with your boss or supervisor is one thing that really decreases recovery or socializing. Not by autonomous choice. So you're hanging out even though you don't want to hang out. And the third is running errands. So using break time to do other chores. So these are the three things I wanted to kind of like, leave us with. Because if you're a leader and you're craving socialization, don't make your team sit and eat lunch with you if they don't want to. I know there's some bosses that really want to be liked or feel like they need companionship. Please find a friend or a coach or a peer. Like, don't make your. Don't make your team have lunch with you. It'll really kill their recovery. And also, if you don't want to hang out with people at lunch, don't hang out with people at lunch. This is back to kind of like finding your timing and finding your choice. Really enjoy some recovery time. What the best micro breaks are. Deep breathing, meditation, walk in the park. So these are the things that really, I invite everyone in the work day to try out. Just experiment with.
Krisana Locke: And no smoking. Micro breaks. Breaks. That's not a. No smoking. Because the micro break is generally people have a smoke break. It's not really having a micro break.
Mino Vlachos: So now we move to the last part, which is really just about vacations and holidays. We've talked a lot about the strategies. It's not any different. Right, Right. But now we're in charge a little bit about. It's weaving together the things we already talked about into a longer timeframe so that you can have a nice vacation. One thing that is interesting is we all know this. We all feel it is that vacations, the feeling of a vacation starts to kind of like fade out over time. So the art of a good vacation or holiday is how do you keep that feeling alive so you don't go into distress and burnout immediately? A good holiday, they say you have that feeling for up to a month, but some people lose it on day one. So what gives? How do we have a good, nice vacation? So they differentiate it into shorter vacations and longer vacations. A short one is four to five days. So a lot of Americans take like, short, like holidays. Right. They do vacations because we don't have that much vacation time. Time. So there the two key things they really Focus on are the number one is mind body relaxation. Number one thing. And the second one is don't think about work. So that's like the big thing for if you have like a long weekend, short holiday is really focus on the mind body relaxation. Now, what about a longer vacation? So here really again, abstaining from work and reminders of work is a big one. But on a longer vacation, they find that mixing relaxation with pleasurable physical activities and social connection is what extends the period of enjoying a holiday for Christmas. Specifically, they have a little section on Christmas which I found funny is the same stuff we've been talking about is mind body relaxation is number one to having a good Christmas holiday. So really enjoy taking care of your mind body system. The second is feeling a sense of agency. So I determine what I do with my time and my energy. The third is having pleasure. And the fourth is savoring. So really savoring and sensual enjoying the things that we're doing. These are the things that will allow Christmas holiday to be felt up to a month later. But there's one thing that can run into a bit of a difficult time which is for our perfectionists. Perfectionists have a little bit of a different experience than anyone else. It's the one thing that they kind of highlighted is people who are perfectionists, they have a very strong immediate benefit from vacation, but then the benefit almost immediately fades out after vacation. So they immediately kind of relax because they get out of perfectionism for a moment, but then they immediately turn it kind of back on. And so they also found that perfectionists are much more likely to work while on vacation. So they really were like, please don't work on vacation if you're perfectionist. But this is one I want to kind of go a little bit into. So, Mazen, when you think about like perfectionism. Right. And like the construction of perfectionism, what might tell us a little bit about it just in general and how that. No, just tell us a little bit about.
Dr. Mazen Harb: Perfectionism.
Mino Vlachos: Yeah. And how it might impact taking a break.
Dr. Mazen Harb: I really believe Krisana know more about perfectionists than me.
Mino Vlachos: Okay. Go for it.
Dr. Mazen Harb: I would direct it there. Yeah. I really don't know much actually. Really not in that perspective. No. Go ahead. I will complete from this.
Krisana Locke: Is that because you're indicating that I'm a perfectionist?
Dr. Mazen Harb: Yes. You've been laughing since you speak.
Krisana Locke: I don't think I'm a top notch perfectionist. But it's very easy for me to be disciplined. It's very easy for me to set intentions. It's very easy for me to know, like, oh, I need to sleep and get good sleep, sleep so I can wake up refreshed. What can I say? Perfectionism. Yeah, it's really, it's. It's control and it's trying to control the situation. So if you go on a vacation and you're a perfectionist, do not have high expectations how you want it to be. And also for me, okay, I'll. For me, when people say we're going on a vacation and we're going to be on the beach and we're just going to relax the whole time on the beach and do nothing for six days, for me, that would be. That's not a relaxation for me because I do like to be on the beach. I do like to have some shade, but I also like to swim. I also like to have something cultural happening for myself. I like time by myself. So for me, it's when things are just too, too set and too prolonged, I get bored because I do. I need to find things that bring me joy and things that shape a way that I can relax. I hope that helps because I don't think I'm highly perfectionist because there's some areas I really do also procrastinate. But yeah, for me, a vacation is weaving in those things without expectations. So there's certain little islands of things that perfectionists could do.
Mino Vlachos: And so one last on vacations I bring up is how we start and end a vacation. So the before and the after also has a big determination on how much we retain the feeling of a vacation. And I know that anyone who's worked in a corporate setting will probably know exactly what I'm talking about. If you have a thousand deadlines the day before your vacation and you're working like, you know, crazy up until the point of the vacation, it's really hard to then, like we started the podcast, to go from doing, doing, doing right into vacation mode. Try to wind down your work a day or two before the vacation starts. Try to take a little bit of the pressure off. If you're a leader, if you're a boss, please, for the love of God, don't assign giant projects or deadlines the day before someone goes on vacation. Or don't give someone a huge new project the day before vacation. Let there be a completion, let there be a closure. And the same thing is when someone comes back to work, if they come back to work and there is a thousand meetings and a thousand projects and a thousand emails, it dissipates the feeling of the vacation, all the benefits are pretty much lost. Allow people a few hours, a couple hours to reintegrate back into this container. So there's something about kind of fading out and then fading in and then that feeling of vacation can last up to a month. But if we just kind of go from like slammed stress to like now you have nothing to do, you're on a beach and now you're slammed stressed again, that's not going to actually support anyone in the, you know, enjoying the vacation. One last thing to bring this slowly to a close is they looked at workplace interventions. So what are the things that have a very large impact for those that have high stress in the workplace? And these are the four things they found. And this is where we have sleep is the most important one, we need to get sleep. The next one is training to divert attention away from stressors or to reappraise stress. So how to reframe stress. The third is boundary management, how to have very good boundaries. And the fourth is mindfulness and meditation. So we've talked a lot about these kind of principles and as I bring it to a summary, if we want to talk about the art of a good vacation, right, one we've talked about, it's individualized, it's about what you like. But try to wind down your work a day or two before the holiday begins. During the holiday really focus on boundaries with work, not thinking about work, something to support the mind, body to relax, having agency. So really choosing in each moment what do I want to do right now? Not going into the shoulds and finding pleasure and savoring having. And that's individual, right? So Krisana mentioned she likes cultural events. For me I actually do love just staring at the ocean and being at the beach. For me that's very enriching, right? I mean when I'm in Greece, if you just put me at the beach for 12 hours I'm going to be in bliss because I'll just stare at the mountains and the water and I don't want to hear and talk to anyone. One like that to me is amazing. Each one of us has something different. Then let's reintegrate softly, gracefully, gently back into work. Back when I had a corporate job, I was in corporate consulting. I would always block the first four hours of my day. Coming back to work I would put like a do not disturb, four hour block. And if, no offense, but if I can do it in like you know, management consulting where it's like a high control environment and people are very stressed, most People can find, even if it's two hours, block off the morning so that you can ease back into your work. The benefit will be felt a month later. This is the art of vacations. And we mentioned a lot also about managing expectations and family and there's all kinds of things. And I hope that this was a rich experience to bring it to a conclusion. One of the things we talked about again and again and again is relaxation. It is mind body relaxation. And so to bring this podcast to a close and I hope you will join us in this exercise, Krisana is going to walk us through something that supports in mind body relaxation.
Krisana Locke: Okay, so I'd like all of you listening or watching these right now. You can close your eyes and I'm going to give you just a really maybe for the next four minutes, guided relaxation, reflection, meditation. Because the mind is always trying to solve problems and look for things and the heart doesn't. The heart that lives in the sense of lovingness. And to do this guided meditation right now, I just would like you to bring your awareness to the moment. And you can do that by feeling the support of the ground beneath you, your feet on the ground. If you're sitting on a chair or a couch, notice the chair supporting you and notice the rhythm right now of your breath. And then I'm going to invite you to take in a deep breath. So breathing in and breathing out and breathing in again. And as you breathe out, you let go of any tensions that you have in the muscles in the bones or maybe in a corner of your heart. And then just watching the rhythm of your breath, noticing where your hands are resting, feeling this rhythm back to the rhythm of your breathing without changing it. Where do you notice the breath come in and out? The body is doing the breathing. And right now I would like you to begin to silently acknowledge something that you are grateful for right now in your life. It could be the warmth of your surroundings, it could be the stillness, or could simply be the time you've taken for yourself. What are you grateful for right now? Acknowledge that and you have your eyes closed, that you're settling, feeling you can breathe, the body's breathing, you feeling grateful for that. And now I would invite you to shift your focus to the people who bring meaning to your life, really true meaning that you feel like your heart opens with them. So visualize their face and silently thank them for the love, the lessons or the support they have given you and let your heart feel this appreciation for their presence, no matter how near they are or so far away. They may be and then I invite you to reflect on an experience that brought you joy or growth or insight it might be something recently you've done or something from your past and as you recall this memory notice the sensations of gratitude within you and let it expand and radiate through your whole body the entire body and then take a final deep breath so I'm going to invite you to take a breath in now so breathing in and breathing out and as you breathe in this time holding the sense of gratitude in your heart and exhale gently and when you're ready bring your some small movements to your fingers to your toes or see where the body wants to move and open and shift and slowly open your eyes and also carrying this feeling of thankfulness and gratefulness with you to the rest of your day or your evening because we often forget what we're there's a lot lot to be grateful for.
Mino Vlachos: And with that thank you all for listening and we'll see you all soon.