E30 When External Conditions Rapidly Deteriorate
September 2025
21 minutes
E30 When External Conditions Rapidly Deteriorate
September 2025
21 minutes
Stream on:
Chaos is inevitable — shifting markets, tariffs, technological disruptions, or geopolitical events can all throw organizations off balance. In this episode of the 3Peak Master Leadership Experience, Mino Vlachos and co-founder Dr. Mazen Harb explore how CEOs can navigate external chaos with clarity, resilience, and purpose.
They discuss why leaders get stuck—either clinging to outdated ways of working or becoming addicted to chronic uncertainty— and how to turn disruption into opportunity.
Key takeaways for leading through uncertainty include:
0:00 - 0:59 Introduction 0:59 - 5:00 Navigating External Chaos 5:00 - 7:55 The Role of Chaos in Order 7:55 - 15:20 Understanding Resistance to Change 15:20 - 21:13 Leadership In Times of Crisis
3Peak Coaching & Solutions is a leadership consultancy dedicated to Elevating Executive Mastery. We specialize in transforming businesses through leadership and team development during transitions and times of crisis.
We focus on the 3 critical areas where chaos and conflict are most likely to appear:
By addressing these flashpoints, we assist you in navigating change to build unity, create certainty, and establish clear direction.
Mino Vlachos: Hello and welcome to the 3Peak Master Leadership Experience. My name is Mino Vlachos and I'm the co founder of 3Peak Coaching & Solutions. 3Peak Coaching & Solutions is a leadership consultancy dedicated to elevating executive mastery. We specialize in transforming businesses through leadership and team development. During transitions and times of crisis. We focus on three critical areas where chaos and conflict are most likely to appear. Board, CEO and C suite Misalignment Transitions into executive leadership Conflict between functional departments. By addressing these flashpoints, we assist you in navigating change to build unity, create certainty and establish clear direction. Our approach empowers leaders to master complex challenges and transform their companies to thrive now and in the future. Today I am joined by Dr. Mazen Harb who is also one of my fellow co founders of three Peak Coaching and Solutions. Today's topic is about dealing with external chaos. So many times there are things that are beyond our control, so there's an external environmental factor and in that kind of chaos we're not able to feel like we have a grasp on how to respond to things in the moment. So we're going to be exploring a little bit of how do we kind of deal with chaos? Is chaos bad? Is it something that, yeah, is we should be fixing or controlling or what? What is really our relationship to when things are chaotic and how do we deal with these changes that happen in the outside world all around us? So Mozanne, I just want to start by asking you. I know it's like a big question and I'm not going to ask it from a philosophical standpoint. The overarching question is a little bit like what is chaos? Which is way too big. Right. But I'm going to try to make it a little bit more digestible which is, let's imagine, you know, we are the CEO of a company and something shifts, whether it's our customers, the economy, tariffs and trade, like something happens and we're like oh wow, like I'm losing grip a bit and it feels very chaotic. It's something outside my control. I go back to then the question which is like in that kind of context, like what is really happening? We might say it's a chaos, but what's. What, what is chaos in that context?
Dr. Mazen Harb: Yeah, it's, it's, it's. I like to receive it like this. I do receive it for me honestly from my ascending because my mind, I didn't prepare today for today's video. So for me I receive it like chaotic. I'm like so inside of me I heard you, but I could not focus a lot. I had a big day. So I have the light in my eyes and then like, I see there's some chaos inside of me. And I'm like, should I panic? I didn't hear him very well. I'm not focused. I don't have an intellectual thing to give him. So I'm relying. I'm slowly going in. I'm like, I know I will come up with the right response. Response, not answer. So in a way, in chaos, actually what we lose touch is how to respond. So the worse we respond, the more we start speaking about chaos and the effect of chaos. The better we respond, the more we see chaos coming into order. So chaos is a relationship between the subject and the object, between the outside and the inside. So it's not like this is chaos how to deal with it. And I'm like, I can show chaos to someone that they will thrive on. I can show chaos to someone, they will disappear and die. Do not forget that this multiverse, the universe for the ones who still don't understand the multiverse, this multiverse has been created from chaos. So creation happened through chaos. So I think chaos has been given a bad name, as if it's something bad. But how can we bring order to something if it was not chaotic before? So for me, chaos is the spark of the new. Is the spark of the new invention. The pioneering, creating a computer, a Macintosh in AI, creating a car, not using horses, all of it. Before that there was chaos. Look at our. Look at this, this, this. What happened. We are living the example. 2019, the world was going, yes, we reach end of the era, but nobody realized we had enough signals. Suddenly it started with COVID but Covid was sign of chaos to later on some things called the AI revolution. They are connected. Think about it. They are connected because chaos starts to appear in the PL on the planet individually, collectively. Chaos starts to happen. Each one's home. They were all at home. What happened from that? Everybody will start to work remote. What happened from that? Now we start. We are in an AI revolution. So I am probably give the different aspect what chaos is that I give it with the biggest, fattest smile, like, yes, to thrive in chaos, but not like chaos is something needed as much as everything else is needed, is the spark of every creation.
Mino Vlachos: And so as you shared and this is kind of a bit of the say it's the opposite side of the same coin is order, right? So for me, one of the things when I think of chaos is things are not in their right place, or we're not aligned or we're not going the same direction, or especially in, like, a work context, like, we don't know how to respond to something. So all our old processes, our ways of doing things are starting to fall apart, right? So, for instance, I think about, like, tariffs, and we're coaching a few leaders, CEOs, who are experiencing, you know, volatility with all the tariffs that the United States is putting on. And in the beginning, it's like a shock to the system, right? You get, like. Because the way we had been doing business is we had consolidated all our manufacturing, all our plants into essentially one country. Now we can't get stuff from that country anymore, or the cost has become prohibitive. So it feels chaotic because the old process doesn't function anymore. The order has immediately collapsed. And so what we think of as chaos, to me is just really the old dying. And then something new must be born. So some new order must come into place. As you mentioned, Mazen. And so with the tariffs, for instance, what I've seen a lot of my clients start to do is, well, how do we start to diversify where we source our materials from? Can we also go to other Asian countries, to African countries, to countries even in Southern Europe? So you start to see this kind of diversification of supply chains start. So what you're doing is you're establishing a new order which will have a new kind of standard operating process, new ways of working, and then that will start to feel like order, stability. And all of a sudden you feel like it's not chaotic anymore. Although, spoiler alert, at some point, that old order will also have to give way to something new. So there is always cycles of change, cycles of updating, cycles of trying to do new things. We see this a lot, Mazen, where people either get stuck in the chaos or get stuck actually in a rigid, old, outdated ways of working. In companies, what have you seen when they, like, maybe why? Hypothesis, why are people getting stuck in one or the other rigid old models or just like kind of addicted to chronic chaos and not wanting to put order around things?
Dr. Mazen Harb: Actually, two things I'm writing down. First, because we feel comfortable with what worked before or what we're used to, Everything new bring a little bit of anxiety again, like the fear of the new. Because the new bring change, and change we have a, in a way, innate fear of change. I'm not gonna go deep, but the nature of change is since we kids, it's our relationship to life and death, you know, so Everything, a project, dying, anything. So then we see change as dangerous and we don't want it. And when something new appears, we feel very uncomfortable. So the more we feel comfortable with something, the more we tolerate to be uncomfortable with something, the more it's easy with us to go through change and easy to deal with chaos. So first, because of comfortability. Second, and this is where it took us long time, even at 3p coaching and solution like in our company, to realize and I stopped judging those leaders. Where I really understand is sometimes people want to play out as much as possible what's possible within the old system, whether possible within the crises, how, how much possible for them to be able with the old set of beliefs and tools and abilities to deal with that. They like to push themselves to the limit so they can get the full learning. I see it's not possible. Hence I really stop telling people, oh but come on, it's, I really respect people choices when they see the crisis and they see that and they still go there sometimes of course, because they're comfortable and something need to wake them up. But another time as well is like, but I need to meet myself in the worst case scenario because if I know how to get up again, I will feel super confident again. All this on the unconscious level. We've been working deep with people so no one will tell you like this. I would be happy to hear some people saying, but we had to work with so many people to try to see the essence. So that's it. Because of comfortability and because subconscious need to play out the worst case so we really know how to rise again.
Mino Vlachos: Yeah. One thing I, I, I like that and this really came from you and our company 3Peak that I think is, I think about a lot is if something feels disorder, right, there is a chaos or something is not aligned, it's not working, we stop everything, we go back, we speak, we realign and then we move forward as one again. And I have found that to be such a pivotal and crucial principle in how we work because we do need to constantly be adapting and changing and things do outgrow the old, right old way, old ways of working. Even roles, functional roles. Who sits in the role? There comes a time where things are constantly evolving and changing and, and if we can notice those moments of like, oh, we're about to go through a, you know, a portal, a threshold, we're about to go into a new phase of this business, stop everything, go back, redraw, get together, work as one, and then move forward. And I even Think about, I will take it there just because I feel like it in, like a political sense. Like, I did a little mini research project on my own where I charted in the history of the United States how many crises the country is facing across all levels. Right. And what you see is almost in the. In the last, like, few decades. It's like an exponential graph where the amount of crisis that the United States is facing is going through the roof. And crisis, which we talk about a lot with our clients, and again, you can visit our website or see other materials we published. Crisis is the. Is when we ignore. We really ignore the change that's needed. And then conflicts start to arise. And what I reflect on as the United States is like, there's so many problems inside the house. There's so many issues and conflicts that we have not actually dealt with. And yet we're out in the world playing world police and being the leader, quote, unquote, leader of the free world and all this stuff here and there. Right? But I'm like, man, we have so many problems. At what point do you just say, like, stop, stop. What's happening inside the house? Can we deal what's happening inside the house? Otherwise crisis will still keep happening to wake us up to the fact that, like, we have significant issues inside the country. So for whatever reason, I felt like bringing that part up.
Dr. Mazen Harb: Yeah.
Mino Vlachos: Any thoughts or. No.
Dr. Mazen Harb: I try to. I don't like to use the word avoid, but I try to dance around geopolitics in the best way possible. Not because of. Because we still live in a very polarized mindset. So whatever has been said will be misunderstood. So. But in a way, anything that's happened outside, it's the same thing as in a company. Like, it's. The principles are the principles. So universal principle are universal principle. Natural laws are natural laws. What happened within every tissue, every organ in your body, in your cells, also happen in the forest, happen in the systems. The more a system is not updating itself, the more it's resisting it become unnatural, the more the repercussion of. Is bigger. So the body is always updating itself. You know very well that Earth, every here and again throws a tsunami here, a volcano there, a tornado there. So it's, it's. You should see that all those events are very much like the immune system of the body, of Earth, of her body, where in our body we know how it manifests. The same thing applies for companies and then countries. I would say to use geopolitics as a mirror of your own self as a mirror of your own family and as a mirror of your own company. So it's really respecting universal laws of putting things together. Foundation, rechecking the foundation. How is my foundation knowing that if you put mistake or you create a mistake at the beginning of creating the foundation, you put things under the rug, it will come back at a certain point in time in way that you do not expect. And if you call that chaos, I'm very sorry to say, but how can that be chaotic if you miss something, this chaos is the best thing that helping you bring that things from under the rag, under the carpet and then look at it, the beauty of universal laws of understanding how we are. The moment you bring it, acknowledge it, correct it, the order will behave and become aligned and working in the best way possible. So whenever we see anything political on this planet and change, yes, change is needed. So that's why I do not judge what's happening, regardless what it is. When sudden things start to change, we got to so much that politics is like that actually. And then suddenly there's changes everywhere. So I'm in a phase where I'm observant, watching and deep down, yeah, with a small smile, yes, that's not where we're going because that's the phase of chaos, but where we're going, that's the catalyzer of where we're going. So that's why I am not against everything that's now happening, because it's really showing up how we're limited when it comes to the wars that happening, to the injustice, to the unfairness. So I'm trusting a system that is cleaning itself out and during the storm it's heavy.
Mino Vlachos: Yeah. So we're in the period of change. Right. And so in some ways I feel like we did have to talk a little bit about geopolitics, about the changes in economy, because again, these are external factors that can feel like a bit of a surprise or a shock. What's your key advice to a CEO of a company where we can, I think, reasonably presume there will be unexpected things that we probably can't even predict, things we can't expect. There'll be ways it shows up that it's just going to look so new every time, you know, like tariffs, like a lot of companies are like, I don't know how to deal with this. I've never dealt with this before. I don't know how to diversify my supply chain. There's a lot of that angst that comes with the new and the quote, unquote chaotic. What's your key piece of advice to a CEO in this time period?
Dr. Mazen Harb: Be ready for it. I'll say to them, this is exactly why you are in this position. And if they, for any illusionary reason they feel they start to blame the outside or say, oh my God or nagging or that happened to me. They misunderstood that they are captain of of that ship. You do not ask the captain of that ship, watch out. We should not everything you will not. We bring people that they are ready to deal with the unexpected unknown. So now you're telling me or every people shout oh, but this is. I don't know how to deal with it. I'm like, I really literally mean it. Question your position. You like the salary, you like the title. You're there to be the one that's most capable to adapt in the unknown. That's your job. That's what the CEO job is. And if you feel very comfortable in the known and you're like, no, but that's my job. I'm like, you chose the wrong position. There any other position have the humility to bring sit with the board and the C suite. Probably you're good in coo, probably a good cfo, probably good financial switch. Switch with someone. Dare to. So here my invitation. How many CEO will they say, actually, I don't know how to deal with those things. I don't think the tariff is the problem. I don't think the challenge is outside. It's challenging the human psyche on the things we say, I want to do it, but they come to us, they're like, oh no, no. And start blaming the world. Yeah, it's a bit of a tough answer, but it's time to stand to what really we sign for. Either we do a full job or we don't. This half a job in this time of change will really won't help at this moment.
Mino Vlachos: What I will share is one one piece of kind of advice feedback is I take it to more of a physical level, which is manage the emotionality of the time period. There are very few moments in corporate or business or startups where you're in an acute literal disaster emergency in the moment you see it happening. Like if I'm going down the road, like yesterday I was cycling, I was biking and I saw a car that had just crashed. So like you go and you check if someone's okay, right? That's like an acute in the moment, right? Like you have to act in the moment. But if someone were to tell me like, hey, something is going wrong with the company. More abstractly, it's not. You can't run to the car. There's no car to run to. What you need to do instead is just take a moment, take a pause, take a breath. There is this again, this, like, addiction to meetings. Back to back to back to back meetings. We're on zoom all day. We're in conference calls all day. There's no time to even go to the bathroom, to eat any food, to physically exercise. But you need to take a moment to pause and to breathe and to feel and to let that shock, the. The wave of the shock wash over you and get back to a regulated. So that all options start to feel possible again. So you can actually think reasonably and logically and not be clouded by instinct and reaction and fear. Pause, then spread that energy of pause and that energy of calm and like some level maybe of optimism. We can do this. We can figure this out right to your team and then down and down and down throughout the organization because you need to be the one that supports people through the change process. So we used to have in kind of corporate consulting, like Change Matters management and Change consultants. And I'm like, everyone is now in change. Everyone's responsible for change. I don't know how you could possibly even, like, say, that's something separate, right? So we're this machine that runs, this engine that runs, and then someone comes and does change to us. I'm like, no, like, now everyone is responsible for change. The CEO, you need to be the change agent constantly, which means you know how to shepherd people through change. And that means starting with yourself. And so understand that the first place I would start is make sure you're regulating emotionally so you can make the best decisions possible. Otherwise it's going to be a pretty tough and reactive journey and firefighting and drowning and yes, then it will feel chaotic. So with that, I'd like to conclude this episode. Thank you so much for listening and we look forward to speaking with you soon.