E32 The Shadow Side Of Empathy
October 2025
18 minutes
E32 The Shadow Side Of Empathy
October 2025
18 minutes
Stream on:
In this episode of the 3Peak Master Leadership Experience, Mino Vlachos and Dr. Mazen Harb discuss the challenges faced by empathetic, service-oriented leaders. These leaders often give endlessly to others but neglect their own needs, which can lead to burnout, hidden resentment, and organizational strain. The conversation explores how to balance giving with self-care while leading effectively.
0:00 - 0:59 Introduction 0:59 - 12:21 The Balance of Empathy and Self-Care 12:21 - 14:12 The Selfish Nature Of Giving 14:12 - 15:48 Understanding Leadership Dynamics 15:48 - 17:41 Taking Personal Responsibility
3Peak Coaching & Solutions is a leadership consultancy dedicated to Elevating Executive Mastery. We specialize in transforming businesses through leadership and team development during transitions and times of crisis.
We focus on the 3 critical areas where chaos and conflict are most likely to appear:
By addressing these flashpoints, we assist you in navigating change to build unity, create certainty, and establish clear direction.
Mino Vlachos: Hello and welcome to the 3Peak Master Leadership Experience. My name is Mino Vlachos and I'm the co founder of 3Peak Coaching & Solutions. 3Peak Coaching & Solutions is a leadership consultancy dedicated to elevating executive mastery. We specialize in transforming businesses through leadership and team development. During transitions and times of crisis, we focus on three critical areas where chaos and conflict are most likely to appear. Board, CEO and C suite. Misalignment. Transitions into executive leadership conflict between functional departments. By addressing these flashpoints, we assist you in navigating change to build unity, create certainty and establish clear direction. Our approach empowers leaders to master complex challenges and transform their companies to thrive now and in the future. Today I am joined by Dr. Mazen Harb, who is also one of my fellow co founders of three Peak Coaching and Solutions. Today's topic is about a certain kind of leader, certain kind of individual that is very relational, empathetic, but sometimes struggles to take care of themselves. So this is when service and servant leadership kind of lead us astray. So what we've noticed is that there are times when people who are very empathetic tend to always be giving, giving, giving, giving, giving, giving, giving, giving, and then they burn out. It's the helper syndrome. And so what I wanted to talk a little bit about today, Mazen, is if we have a leader that is operating in this kind of modality, I want first to understand, like, what's going on? Like, why would someone who is helping someone end up burning out themselves? And then to talk a little bit about what is actually needed so that that style of leadership doesn't kind of derail the individual, the team, the company as a whole, depending on the position that the leader is in. So maybe help me understand a little bit, right? What is this kind of style, which is like, I'm really empathetic, I'm giving to everyone, but actually I don't really take care of myself at all.
Dr. Mazen Harb: That's gonna be a very interesting start. And you told me today we're gonna keep it short, so I will keep it short with that answer. When we miss on giving to ourselves, we start giving others and start very early on. I know it because I was like that. When we miss to take care of ourselves or ask for our needs from our peers, for our caregivers, we rebel inside of us and we say, I will take care of the world. That's my answer for now.
Mino Vlachos: And so we go into this mode, right? Of like, we take care of the others, we're in service what part of that leads to moments of burnout though.
Dr. Mazen Harb: We don't have infinite physical energy, so we will be consuming all our physical energy because we're not replenishing it from inside, from our energy and knowing how to ask for help, how to take care of ourselves. So when we over stretch, overextend, over consume all that goodness we have without replenishing it, we go into minus in the energy reserve, the physical ones, we might be happy doing it, that's fantastic. But in the energy capability, because we didn't find a way to charge like a phone or like a computer. So hence we're overdoing over stretching. That's when we fall into those moments.
Mino Vlachos: So there's a part of us that needs to take care of our own physical needs and emotional and psychological spiritual needs. And there's a part where, because we're social animals, like we have relationships, interdependencies with other humans, with other animals, the trees, the sun, like. So there's relationships that we must also tend to and manage and take care of it. Right. And contribute to the whole. So there's this balance that needs to start to exist between me and something outside me, is that right?
Dr. Mazen Harb: Exactly. There is a certain things that need to be understood because it's based on a behavior of missing something. So it is a reaction of us not receiving that. Something that we really require for initial. Like very early on in our upbringing. So we go out and instead of we are balancing it by giving it out, but actually something that we were asking, so it's not. And without still knowing to receive. So I'll give you an example here. Imagine you know it very well on the plane they say, you know, put your oxygen mask before putting to the ones beside you. You have to understand for the leader who are more of like empathic leaders or servant leaders, it's called, right? So what happens is there's only more also morality on one hand, but there's also the mind playing tricks on really blaming the world, like looking and judging. So I'll give an example. Something happening in the plane. There is this guy, very fit athlete, good, you know, good in the body. He have enough fitness, something happened and whatever in the air. And then in front of him there's like three or four kids, two elderies. And then his wife or whatever, his boyfriend on the side, right? And someone looking the. And then someone looking at him, the stewardess or they're looking at them and they ask, please take care. And then put buckle your seat belts. And there's the kids in front of and then, or put the oxygen and then if somebody looks with the eye of judgment and because he or she have seen unfairness something very early on, and they're like fighting injustice. So you'll notice that this guy probably will take care of himself first and then everybody will be like, ah, he's very selfish, he should have taken care of those small kids. But actually if you go fast forward in the story in this metaphor, that if he knew how to take care of himself, he will be able to take care of like 10 or 12. But if he didn't take care of himself, probably things were happening so fast that he will go take care of 1, 2 or 3 and. And then doesn't have enough oxygen to continue. So in a way, like, that's a bit of an extreme example, but just understanding if we look from outside, oh, look at him or look at her, they not helping this, helping that. So that means us, the people who are really very empathic, empathetic, we think that that's the best way to help is to put our hearts out to really give to others. It's very Christian, like actually in a sense of like, oh, I really want to take care, I want to love and this, but I forgot to take care of myself. If I take care of myself, I can triple or quadruple the amount of people I can support. If I don't take care of myself, that's the issue that happens of morality and judgment. I will start growing disappointment within myself. Hence disappointment, sadness, feeling misunderstood. Probably I went too fast now in your questions, but that's disappointment, sadness and feeling constant misunderstood will be always eating on the people who behaving in that way while forgetting themselves.
Mino Vlachos: When we work with CEOs, what I've noticed is ones that have a bit of this style, whether it's because of empathy or because of, like you said, this early childhood experience or something that drives them, they create an imbalance in the giving and receiving, the give and the take, right? So there is a resentment that starts to build up. So let me make this tangible. You are a CEO and you start to take on more tasks, tasks, more tasks, more tasks. You give holiday to this person, holiday to that person, vacation payments, you make sure they get paid. Meanwhile, you're not getting your paycheck, you're not going on holiday, you're not delegating tasks. So ultimately you end up becoming this bottleneck and the organization is struggling to actually thrive and live and, and grow. And you start to suffocate the Whole entity. Because there's not enough oxygen to your metaphor with the mask. Right. There's not enough oxygen flowing into the organization because the CEO thinks in service of everyone else and they're doing everything, but they're secretly so resentful. And there starts to be this rage towards the employees from the CEO. And that's when a lot of kind of funky things start to happen. Because when you have negative emotion, hidden emotion, hidden relationship dynamics, even if it's just one sided, one person towards another, then it starts to distort the field in which people work and expect to do their tasks every day. This, this took me a long time to learn in life because I come from a culture where you do give, give, give, give, give. There's a lot of hospitality and Greeks are all, yeah, give, give, give. I, I've had to learn through a lot of mistakes, trial and errors that this imbalance is destructive. When we just give, give, give, give, give infinitely we create this. Again, I keep using the word imbalance where it can never be paid back. So in a way, you're always putting yourself over other people and then at some point you think you have favors that are owed and you're also setting yourself up for disappointment. Because if you're giving with no expectations and no attachment, then the other person thinks they're receiving a gift. So if it's a gift, does it need to be repaid? Or is it a transaction that does need to be repaid at some point? So starts to create all kinds of social, relational work dynamics which is very difficult to untangle unless you have some extra support. That's where I see it kind of really playing out in a workplace where it also then leads to burnout. Roles are blurred, there's no functional lines. Like it's weirdly, I would say one of the most destructive patterns of behavior is not respecting the reciprocity that is needed in give and take. And it's a topic that's really. Yeah, very vital.
Dr. Mazen Harb: Wow. Yeah, I will translate it. You know me, like with all the science I did and everything, my job at certain point was really deep down in my research, I realized the best thing that I can give to this planet is unifying the language that we all speak regardless. Scientists, spiritual, business, and many others. And I love to simplify things. They're not simple, but simplify to small words. I like to give it to. What you said in this problem is because everything has a component, psychological component and emotional component. What starts growing is expectation. So here why I'm using that Word to remind everyone who's in a leader position, please check, bring, do this inventory on yourself how much expectation you have from others but others are not aware of because it has never been communicated and it's not part of their job. Every expectation that's not communicated, it's a formula for disappointed, disappointment, for disaster, for like misunderstand, to be misunderstood, for this unfairness. So look at that. We start in this life fighting injustice and unfairness. Then we go help the people we ended up ourselves feeling always injustice. And that's unfair. We are only that kind of leader to go full round to know what we missed and how to take care of ourselves. So when we let go and bring that balance, what you said, a beautiful balance between give and take. We let go of expectation. Worlds upon worlds will open in the way how we lead our lives and then how we move with others and lead others.
Mino Vlachos: I'll give one last. Which sometimes can feel a little bit like a slap, but I need to say it. I feel called to say it is if we get really to the root of it, like you said, where you're supporting because you're trying to heal something within you. You're actually giving with expectation, with attachment, with conditions that are unspoken. So it's a contract that's almost invisible, but at the end of the day, you're doing it because you're actually doing something for yourself. So in a strange way, it is actually a very selfish act. And it is not altruistic. It is not giving a gift with no attachment. It's not giving for the health of the relationship. It's not even giving for the person themselves. I remember we did a simulation, like almost like an exercise with a group of leaders once. And we had one individual that kept trying to play the savior role and his peer. It was a woman. She didn't want to be saved. She didn't need to be saved. She was doing great. But he kept trying to play out this pattern and he kept doing it to the detriment of the whole leadership team. And we had to say, like, look man, like what you're doing is about fulfilling something in you. So you mask it in morality. But it is something to fulfill a selfish need in you. Which is cool if you just are honest about that. But don't pretend it's for the benefit of your peer. This woman who is actually doing amazing without your support, she doesn't want or need your help. And if you were more interested in the health of the relationship, you would see that and you wouldn't try to impose some kind of quote unquote help. So, so, Mazen, what's one kind of key piece of advice if you're working with a leader, CEO or other leader that's experiencing some of these behavioral tendencies, what would be one advice you give them?
Dr. Mazen Harb: The obvious one for me now is like the very known sentence, know thyself. It's yeah, know thyself and stop judging. The other leaders that you call them very harsh and tough and very direct. The truth is, in between those two personalities, it's a mix of both in a very balanced way, they are not better than the others. They're very harsh. It's just, it's a different form of it. So it's really to reconcile within themselves with what they see actually on the outside. Very harsh leaders and this. And they want to compensate on that. Why do they want to compensate on the other form of leadership? Instead of embracing the both sides of who we are and then really coming back to the moment, lead through, present, read through what's needed, not what you desire to heal. Lead. Sometimes they will be very directive. Sometimes it can to be very sweet. Sometimes it need to be very social. Sometimes to be very not social at all. You, there's not, oh, there's one form of leadership. Let go of an identity of how you are leading and honestly, start leading an ocean. You're on a boat where every day it's a different weather. So every day you will have a different way of approaching the environment around you. Be surprised by life. Go back to playfulness. Let go of your conditioned thoughts and beliefs.
Mino Vlachos: Mine again, might end up being a little bit more. I don't know if tough is the right word, but mine goes back to taking responsibility. So because, surprise, surprise, I also had this characteristic within me, right? The giving, the giving, the giving the savior syndrome. So I can speak from personal experience in a way. And what I noticed is that I had abdicated responsibility for my own body, my physical body. What was I doing expecting someone to put the food in my mouth, to move the toothbrush across my teeth, to move my limbs so I could exercise, to inhale oxygen? Was I expecting someone to do that for me? These are all tasks that I need to do to keep myself physically alive. If I don't breathe, you're going to see me on the floor pretty quick. If I don't drink water, okay, maybe a few days. If I don't eat food, maybe, you know, some weeks, at some point I'm gonna drop, right? If I don't move my body, which is something I'm working on, on my personal life. In some years, I might drop. Right. There's no one can do this for me. So this is a personal responsibility. And what I just. Again, it's not. It's maybe a little harsh, but it's like at some point you can't expect something from someone else. So if this wound is about. I didn't get enough from someone else, like, yeah, I hear you. Maybe a lot of us didn't. But at the end of the day, you still have to do the things that keep you alive. So you have to take personal responsibility and accountability for your physical body. And if that's selfish, then maybe selfishness is good because we need to stay alive and need to keep taking care of ourselves. So that's. That's where I'll leave it is return back to taking care of your own physical and emotional needs. It's not optional. It's what keeps you alive. So with that, we finished today's episode. Thank you so much for listening and hope to see you back again soon.